thoughts on geography in Naruto, and more "Guardian" planning

Look! gabriel_chaos drew me Naga in her "Guardian" incarnation. (Note the summoning scroll -- this will be a plot point.)

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Note to self -- whichever map I believe (thank you, deralte!) there's at least one small country between Sound and Thunder/Lightning. (What's the official English translation/transliteration of Rai no Kuni anyway? This is important!) I hereby declare it to be... hmmm...

Naming countries is harder than it seems. I've already decided that River Country has to be that medium-sized place with a coastline between Wind and Fire, which makes sense if it is, as Wikipedia claims, the location of Akatsuki's hideout where they took Gaara. (And yes, that's the same River Country I mentioned in "Tides" and am using in "Undertow" -- I didn't know it was 'real' at the time, but I'm willing to go along with it.)

Forest Country? Shadow Country? I'd use Rain, but it's taken (and somewhere west near Grass, Wind, and Earth) or Mist (but that's the village in Water Country). Mountain Country makes no real geographic sense... no wait, maybe it does. Peninsulas can be mountinous, after all. Pine Country? Avalanche Country? (Between Earth and Wind.) Lake Country? (No, put that along the coast of the northern bay, next to what I think may be Waterfall Country -- or that peninsula southeast of Fire Country, because I'm pretty sure Wave Country is meant to be only islands and no mainland territory.) Moss Country? (A northern bay place.) Autumn Country? (No, not seasons. 'Elements,' weather, or geographic features only. Though Tea Country breaks that... no, tea's a plant, like grass, and besides, I think it's an anime-only country, in which case I can ignore it if I want.) Sky Country? Y'know, I like Sky Country. It goes well next to Thunder/Lightning.

So. Amane Eiji lives in Sky Country, which is past Sound Country (I think -- executive decision here -- that Orochimaru has not yet left Akatsuki, so Hidden Sound doesn't exist at this point in time) and on the border of Thunder/Lightning Country. This means that Sky Country is the only land route into Thunder/Lightning, and is consequently of great interest to the shinobi of Hidden Cloud. They can, of course, do a lot of ocean-going trade, but the land route is particularly important for ninja, since ninja can move faster than boats. (Hey, canonically chuunin level shinobi can travel from Konoha to Suna in 3 days, and that's a pretty significant distance on the maps. Civilians can't go nearly that fast, and I doubt that Team 7 was in shape for a hard fight when they reached the Sand, but still. It's definitely something to keep in mind.) It's also the logical path of attack, if another war breaks out, so the Cloud-nin presumably maintain a strong presence on their border with Sky Country, and within Sky Country itself.

I think the Leaf-nin do the same thing to some of the small countries on their northern border, just as Mist-nin are interested in keeping the islands under their control. I can't tell from the Wikipedia map whether the land bits to the far east are simply large islands or part of another mainland landmass. If, as I suspect, it's another mainland, I don't think it's organized along the same social/military patterns as... damnit, I haven't heard a better name... as the Elemental Countries. Gato may very likely have been from that continent. (I suspect both Wind Country and Earth Country fade into desert as you go west off the map, which means their western borders are probably quite vague, and they're not worried about threats from whatever cultures exist in that direction.)

Wave Country seems not to be under anybody's specific influence, which is why Gato was able to move in without disturbing the hidden villages. It would probably fall under the aegis of Fire or Water, if either country took a strong interest.

Anyway, Eiji lives in Sky Country, in the town of... *fiddles with cheap online translation dictionary* Tengai. That will work. (Probably Tengai no Sato would be the more proper form, but I write in English, so who cares!) Now, should Tengai be a harbor town or a place on a land trade route? If it's a harbor, it makes very little sense for it to be on the southeastern coast, since Yukiko and company are traveling with a trade caravan, and a caravan from Fire Country probably wouldn't go to a harbor town out of the country, not one that's on the same bay that Fire Country touches. They might go to a northern bay harbor, or stop at a village on the land route into Thunder/Lightning Country. But Eiji's a cosmopolitan sort of man, with business interests in many places. He'd probably want a harbor base. So... Tengai is a town on the northwestern coast of Sky Country.

Details are my friends. If I know, firmly, where I'm going, then I don't have to worry about accidentally describing something that turns out to be impossible later on. Hopefully I can keep from working myself into the same sort of contortions I'm going through with regard to the school year in Naruto. It's my own fault for falling onto more American assumptions and not realizing those rules don't mesh well with the assumption of an autumn graduation from the ninja academy, but I blame Kishimoto at least partially, for not drawing clear seasons. He's very unclear about temperature in general, actually -- winter doesn't seem to occur, but Fire Country can't possibly be tropical or people wouldn't waltz around in fur-lined coats like Kiba and Hinata. It's as bad as JKR with the numbers of Hogwarts students, Hogwarts teachers, and their consequently impossible class schedules. (Oh, the contortions I went through to make that mess work out so I could make up a schedule for Ginny and keep "Secrets" from contradicting itself all over the place! But I managed. And I will manage this. *resolve face*)

(Of course, working out why the Sasayaki left Hidden Grass when people like that Venus fly-trap guy seem to have stayed and presumably been welcome is... well, I'll make that work, too. Somehow. Kishimoto makes very little sense on the subject of bloodline limits. I never know if they're accepted or not, and to what degree, and where. Haku wasn't, and I think he must have been from a water-based country -- maybe up north, because of the ice? -- but maybe he was from Water Country and that was a prejudice of Hidden Mist. Hidden Cloud is canonically interested in at least some bloodline limits -- see Hinata and Neji's backstory -- but I don't know if that's because they accept such ninja, or if they treat them as experimental subjects and slave-weapons, the way some ninja seem to consider jinchuuriki. Actually, maybe that's why fly-trap man went rogue? Hmmm. *sets idea aside for further consideration*)

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ETA: Look, maps!

Map #1
-----This is from Wikipedia, and is part of a long article on the geography and villages of the Elemental Countries. However, a significant portion of the information is based on the anime or the movies. I don't trust those parts, and will most likely not use them, especially since I've never seen the anime and I don't consider the filler arcs canon. The map is also small and hard to read in places.

Map #2
-----This one is more useful than the Wikipedia map, since it shows the hidden villages as well as the countries, and is more generally readable. It disagrees with the Wikipedia map in a couple places, but I am more inclined to trust it. (alternate link, fifth picture)

Map #3
-----This one mostly agrees with Map #2, and is actually easier to read since it doesn't have other pictures superimposed over it.

thoughts on geography in Naruto, and more "Guardian" planning

Look! gabriel_chaos drew me Naga in her "Guardian" incarnation. (Note the summoning scroll -- this will be a plot point.)

-------------------------------------

Note to self -- whichever map I believe (thank you, deralte!) there's at least one small country between Sound and Thunder/Lightning. (What's the official English translation/transliteration of Rai no Kuni anyway? This is important!) I hereby declare it to be... hmmm...

Naming countries is harder than it seems. I've already decided that River Country has to be that medium-sized place with a coastline between Wind and Fire, which makes sense if it is, as Wikipedia claims, the location of Akatsuki's hideout where they took Gaara. (And yes, that's the same River Country I mentioned in "Tides" and am using in "Undertow" -- I didn't know it was 'real' at the time, but I'm willing to go along with it.)

Forest Country? Shadow Country? I'd use Rain, but it's taken (and somewhere west near Grass, Wind, and Earth) or Mist (but that's the village in Water Country). Mountain Country makes no real geographic sense... no wait, maybe it does. Peninsulas can be mountinous, after all. Pine Country? Avalanche Country? (Between Earth and Wind.) Lake Country? (No, put that along the coast of the northern bay, next to what I think may be Waterfall Country -- or that peninsula southeast of Fire Country, because I'm pretty sure Wave Country is meant to be only islands and no mainland territory.) Moss Country? (A northern bay place.) Autumn Country? (No, not seasons. 'Elements,' weather, or geographic features only. Though Tea Country breaks that... no, tea's a plant, like grass, and besides, I think it's an anime-only country, in which case I can ignore it if I want.) Sky Country? Y'know, I like Sky Country. It goes well next to Thunder/Lightning.

So. Amane Eiji lives in Sky Country, which is past Sound Country (I think -- executive decision here -- that Orochimaru has not yet left Akatsuki, so Hidden Sound doesn't exist at this point in time) and on the border of Thunder/Lightning Country. This means that Sky Country is the only land route into Thunder/Lightning, and is consequently of great interest to the shinobi of Hidden Cloud. They can, of course, do a lot of ocean-going trade, but the land route is particularly important for ninja, since ninja can move faster than boats. (Hey, canonically chuunin level shinobi can travel from Konoha to Suna in 3 days, and that's a pretty significant distance on the maps. Civilians can't go nearly that fast, and I doubt that Team 7 was in shape for a hard fight when they reached the Sand, but still. It's definitely something to keep in mind.) It's also the logical path of attack, if another war breaks out, so the Cloud-nin presumably maintain a strong presence on their border with Sky Country, and within Sky Country itself.

I think the Leaf-nin do the same thing to some of the small countries on their northern border, just as Mist-nin are interested in keeping the islands under their control. I can't tell from the Wikipedia map whether the land bits to the far east are simply large islands or part of another mainland landmass. If, as I suspect, it's another mainland, I don't think it's organized along the same social/military patterns as... damnit, I haven't heard a better name... as the Elemental Countries. Gato may very likely have been from that continent. (I suspect both Wind Country and Earth Country fade into desert as you go west off the map, which means their western borders are probably quite vague, and they're not worried about threats from whatever cultures exist in that direction.)

Wave Country seems not to be under anybody's specific influence, which is why Gato was able to move in without disturbing the hidden villages. It would probably fall under the aegis of Fire or Water, if either country took a strong interest.

Anyway, Eiji lives in Sky Country, in the town of... *fiddles with cheap online translation dictionary* Tengai. That will work. (Probably Tengai no Sato would be the more proper form, but I write in English, so who cares!) Now, should Tengai be a harbor town or a place on a land trade route? If it's a harbor, it makes very little sense for it to be on the southeastern coast, since Yukiko and company are traveling with a trade caravan, and a caravan from Fire Country probably wouldn't go to a harbor town out of the country, not one that's on the same bay that Fire Country touches. They might go to a northern bay harbor, or stop at a village on the land route into Thunder/Lightning Country. But Eiji's a cosmopolitan sort of man, with business interests in many places. He'd probably want a harbor base. So... Tengai is a town on the northwestern coast of Sky Country.

Details are my friends. If I know, firmly, where I'm going, then I don't have to worry about accidentally describing something that turns out to be impossible later on. Hopefully I can keep from working myself into the same sort of contortions I'm going through with regard to the school year in Naruto. It's my own fault for falling onto more American assumptions and not realizing those rules don't mesh well with the assumption of an autumn graduation from the ninja academy, but I blame Kishimoto at least partially, for not drawing clear seasons. He's very unclear about temperature in general, actually -- winter doesn't seem to occur, but Fire Country can't possibly be tropical or people wouldn't waltz around in fur-lined coats like Kiba and Hinata. It's as bad as JKR with the numbers of Hogwarts students, Hogwarts teachers, and their consequently impossible class schedules. (Oh, the contortions I went through to make that mess work out so I could make up a schedule for Ginny and keep "Secrets" from contradicting itself all over the place! But I managed. And I will manage this. *resolve face*)

(Of course, working out why the Sasayaki left Hidden Grass when people like that Venus fly-trap guy seem to have stayed and presumably been welcome is... well, I'll make that work, too. Somehow. Kishimoto makes very little sense on the subject of bloodline limits. I never know if they're accepted or not, and to what degree, and where. Haku wasn't, and I think he must have been from a water-based country -- maybe up north, because of the ice? -- but maybe he was from Water Country and that was a prejudice of Hidden Mist. Hidden Cloud is canonically interested in at least some bloodline limits -- see Hinata and Neji's backstory -- but I don't know if that's because they accept such ninja, or if they treat them as experimental subjects and slave-weapons, the way some ninja seem to consider jinchuuriki. Actually, maybe that's why fly-trap man went rogue? Hmmm. *sets idea aside for further consideration*)

-------------------------------------

ETA: Look, maps!

Map #1
-----This is from Wikipedia, and is part of a long article on the geography and villages of the Elemental Countries. However, a significant portion of the information is based on the anime or the movies. I don't trust those parts, and will most likely not use them, especially since I've never seen the anime and I don't consider the filler arcs canon. The map is also small and hard to read in places.

Map #2
-----This one is more useful than the Wikipedia map, since it shows the hidden villages as well as the countries, and is more generally readable. It disagrees with the Wikipedia map in a couple places, but I am more inclined to trust it. (alternate link, fifth picture)

Map #3
-----This one mostly agrees with Map #2, and is actually easier to read since it doesn't have other pictures superimposed over it.