wherein Liz asks people for computer shopping advice

[edenfalling]

Today my parents visited me. We went to two wineries/vineyards up the east shore of Cayuga, had a nice picnic lunch, did some speculative computer shopping, and ate dinner at Moosewood.

Dad had the Sicilian cod, Mom had Tortino di Verdure (which is like a casserole with pretensions and eggplant), and I had mushroom ragout ("Portabello, cremini, and white button mushrooms and more simmered with Marsala wine; accompanied by rosemary-pumpkin polenta cutlets and Romano beans; topped with parmesan [opt.]").

Then I had a fudge brownie a la mode for dessert. Mmm, chocolate...

---------------

Anyway, back to computers.

See, my current computer is a Dell Optiplex something-or-other, bought back in 2000. It runs either Windows '98 or Windows 2000; I'm not sure which, since it's never mattered to me.

A few years ago, I had a problem most likely related to switching from a constant ethernet hookup to a non-internet-connected setup, and the computer refused to work normally. It would only operate in safe mode. I thought I'd fixed that, and for a few weeks it worked right, but then it switched back to only running in safe mode while insisting it's still running normally.

Eh. Electronics, not my thing.

Anyway, I need a new computer. The thing is, I don't really have any basis for comparison shopping. I don't care about most bells and whistles. All I need my new computer to do is:

A) word process
B) allow me to transfer data to public computers for internet access
C) play DVDs
D) play my rather outdated collection of mp3s
E) have potential for internet access (should I get another two raises in quick succession and thus be able to afford it)
F) probably have a printer that can double as a photocopier

I do not want a laptop; they bug me, their keyboards and touch pads suck like sucking things and make my wrists ache, and their screens are always at the wrong height relative to my eyes. I do not want a screen with any sort of glare; those ultra-shiny things from HP, for example, are right out. Beyond that, I have no preference whatsoever.

Does anybody out there have any advice? Brand names, model names, anything?

(On a related note, I've been told that I can insert my old hard drive into a new computer as a slave drive and thus be able to access my files without having to laboriously transfer them one by one. Is this true, and if so, is it at all complicated? I'm good with non-electronic mechanical things, but wires and plugs often flummox me.)

Comments

[firedawn.livejournal.com]

Um, yes, and yes. It's complicated if your case sucks, but depending in your current computer, you can do it. Dell is pretty good about it.

If you want a really basic laptop, the new Dells will do fine. Just make sure you have a good CPU/motherboard and that's all that really matters---the rest are all just bells and whistles and upgradeable. It's really worth it to buy a decent motherboard so you don't have to get another computer soon, because these things become outdated and stuff so damn fast.

I know that buying a computer at Dell often gets you a free printer, but doubtful as to photocopier. That stuff will cost you over 70 dollars. But Internet access isn't hard---most modern made computers come with an Ethernet card and stuff, and you can always get DSL and stuff, and buy a wireless card to go with it if that's your thing. There's a lot of ways to customize your computer at Dell.

Generally I don't recommend Dells but it really doesn't sound like you're doing much with it, so yeah.

[chibirisuchan.livejournal.com]

Which model is your Optiplex? We've got an assortment of them in labs at work. Disclaimer: I hate Dells with a burning seething rage, and their GX240s' "I eat your hands foolish mortal" clamshell design that doesn't let you actually reach any of the relevant guts but are randomly painted green on inner bits for the kewl factor is just one of my many reasons why...

Last year it would have been a lot easier to say "yes you can transfer things" without blinking, because there was really only one hard drive type in common use (called EIDE or ATA). Now there's also SATA (serial ATA), which takes a different connector type than every hard drive ever built in the past 20 years.

If your new motherboard has ports for both EIDE and SATA, then you can do it. If not, you'll have a harder time and will need some kind of adapter. Assuming it's got both types of ports:

Set the jumpers on your old hard drive to either slave or cable-select (there'll be a diagram on the hard drive itself; each manufacturer uses a different set of jumper settings, and whether to use cable-select or slave depends on the interaction of your BIOS and your new master drive and whether or not it's EIDE or SATA. The easiest way to handle it isn't to try to decipher what'll happen; the easiest way is to try one jumper configuration, and if it doesn't detect the drive in the BIOS, then try the other.)

Plug your old drive into the slave position on the IDE cable (there's two connectors on an IDE cable; the one in the middle is the slave spot. An EIDE cable is usually a gray ribbon with a pink stripe at one side; the pink stripe will line up with pin 1 on an EIDE hard drive.).

If your new drive is EIDE, it should already be plugged in at the master spot. If your new drive is SATA, you probably won't have an IDE cable in the computer and will need to reuse your old one to connect your old drive.

Once you've got the data cables connected, make sure to connect power cables to both drives as well. Power cables usually have a white tip with four pins and a flat bottom and curved top corners, and the cables themselves are red, yellow, and black.

Once you've got your old machine jumpered to slave or cable-select, plugged in as slave, and attached to an EIDE port in the motherboard, try booting and escape to the BIOS during the boot sequence (where the screen is black before you get to XP or whatever). You usually do this by hitting F2, F8, Delete, or Escape depending on your BIOS type -- watch the top left corner of the black screen for cues. Once you get into the BIOS, which looks like an old DOS text editor, look for the part that talks about hardware (again, unfortunately, every BIOS is different and I can't be more specific than this).

If it's detected both your old drive and your new drive, you're on the right track. If not, swap the jumper on the old drive and try again.

Once it's detected both the old and the new drive, check the boot sequence in the BIOS to make sure it's going to try booting off your new drive before the old one.

And once THAT'S been done, you can finish booting and your old drive should be available for copying over.

...It usually only takes me 10 minutes or so to do that process if I have the right cables and can reach the right place on the motherboard? It's not as complicated as it sounds, but explaining it rather than reaching in and pointing at things is hard.

In terms of recommendations, I build my own computers because you can save several hundred dollars by not paying to feed Dell or HP's marketing machines, so my recommendations are more in terms of specs than brands.

(whoops, too long, part 1 of 2)

[chibirisuchan.livejournal.com]

If you're not going to do anything more complex than music, video-watching (as opposed to video-making), and basic Net access, you could probably get along just fine with a certified reconditioned system that's a couple years old running Windows XP. (I sure wouldn't take Vista right now if you paid me. Machines that run perfectly fine on XP turn into turtles when you add all the really unnecessary Vista graphical overhead, and Microsoft never gets it right until at least the second service pack.)

I'd say go for something like:

At least 1.5 to 2 gigahertz processor speed
At least 512 MB RAM (preferably a gig)
At least 80 to 120 gig hard drive (they don't really sell them smaller than 80 gig anymore, actually -- it wasn't that many years ago when 80 gig was the really expensive drive in our corporate server; ah, nostalgia).

Whatever kind of desktop you get will have an Ethernet port on the motherboard anymore. You can connect that to an external cable modem or DSL modem. If you want to use dialup, though, you'll probably have to buy an internal dialup modem as a separate card; they're not automatically provided anymore, since they assume most buyers will want Ethernet.

Erm. Have I just gone off the geek deep end at you? ^^;;; Poke me if I can answer anything; I should be around this evening...

[firedawn.livejournal.com]

Most Dell computers, even the really really entry level ones, come with an IDE slot even if the main is in SATA. It's not so bad, and I'd never done it before when I put both in. And yeah, I do build my own 'puters because it's just cheaper and better and more upgradeable, but then that's kind of out of the question, yeah?

But it's true that no matter what computer you buy, Liz, if it has Vista, downgrade. The nightmare that was XP SP1... ;_;

[valles-uf.livejournal.com]

I will third the disreccomendation of Vista. I've found it far less stable than XP, I have a knee-jerk loathing of its DRM infection, and if you're using any kind of real security software then its so-called features in that respect do nothing but get in the way with a gleeful vengeance. I'm going to be switching back to XP Pro the instant I can afford it.

Having done so myself for the first time only a few months ago, building your own PC box is shockingly simple, at least in physical terms. My motherboard's manual included detailed diagrams including a map of the entire board with where everything went and blow-up shots of what the individual slots were actually supposed to look like. Some quick googling should, IIRC, turn up a number of guides to the process written for every band of technical competence. A little caution about static and a bit of care to make sure that the parts you order are compatible ahead of time (experience speaking, here. ^_^;;) and everything should come together without any problems.

Honestly I think that putting the first OS in took longer than building the physical parts... and that's no more complicated than any other software installation, just longer.

[redwolfoz.livejournal.com]

If you had any technical expertise in the ways of computers, I'd recommend avoiding Dell like the plague. But you don't and are highly unlikely to open the thing up, change bits over and add shiny blue and green lights. Dell offer a pretty decent support service too, from what I hear, so it may be your best bet if you don't have a handy geek who can upgrade your existing PC or build you a new one.

If you're going Dell, I'd recommend getting XP instead of Vista installed. Vista has way too many issues with lack of drivers and if you aren't competent enough to find the appropriate driver on a manufacturer's web site (if it exists at all) and install it, it will drive you insane. My sister-in-law has this issue with her new laptop; there are no drivers available for the new printer and she just doesn't understand why.

Yes, you can install the old hard drive as a secondary drive in the new computer. Obviously, you won't be able to run stuff from there like you did before (unless it's standalone stuff), but accessing the files will not be an issue.

Generally, there is switch (sometimes a physical switch, mostly a jumper switch) to convert the drive from master to slave with a helpful diagram on the hard drive itself to show you how.

Your main hard drive has two connections to the computer; one is a ribbon cable for data and the other is a four port-looking thing for power. Usually you should see extra spare connections along each of these power and data cables to plug a second hard drive in. There should be a spare dock to mount it in near the main hard drive, but this can be an issue in compact boxes where space is a premium so you may want to consider that tower style box over a compact box.

Once you've connected the second hard drive, you'll need to reboot and make sure it appears in the BIOS. Usually you can hit the DEL key on startup to enter this, but some Dell boxen are locked down and you may need to check the manuals on how to get into it. Once in, you should be able to find your way about and check the second hard drive is listed. If not, select where it should be (after the main drive) and use the auto-select utility to grab its details. Save and exit, then you should be good to go.

The second hard drive will probably come up as something wacky; C will be your new hard drive, D is probably a DVD, so the old one will be E. If you want to swap them, you can tool around in the admin settings under Windows.

[edenfalling]

I think my current computer is an OptiPlex GX110, but I wouldn't swear to that.

Thanks for the hard drive and BIOS explanations -- I'm sure it will make a lot more sense when I have the actual guts of the computer in front of me.

[edenfalling]

I don't want to have to get another computer for at least 5 years, so I don't know about buying used. I also don't really want to try building a computer from components; I just don't trust myself to do it right. I guess I've been bitten too often by finicky electronic doohickeys.

I won't even have net access since I can't afford it; I use public computer labs instead. I've been transfering files on floppy disks, but those are going the way of the dinosaur so I guess I'll be switching to those little flash drive thingies that remind me of keychains. (Which reminds me that I should probably learn the proper name for them... *sigh*)

As for geek levels... I am about as non-computer-literate as you can get and still use a computer every day. This is probably because I have a fundamentally conservative personality; if it ain't broke, I see no reason to try something new that might be better. I figured out how to do the few things I cared about (word processessing and web-surfing, basically) and then never bothered learning anything more. (Well, except basic spreadsheets, but that was for work and I've mostly forgotten it anyway.)

Obviously this is coming back to bite me. *double sigh*

[edenfalling]

Since I won't be hooked up to the net, security software is a little pointless. :-) But I will definitely see if I can avoid Vista.

The thing is, I am deeply non-technical (at least when it comes to computer stuff), so I don't trust myself to build a computer OR to install software, particularly since a lot of software these days seems to assume all computers have an internet connection and may bollix its setup when it can't reach out and phone home, so to speak.

I think it might be worth it (to me) to pay Best Buy an extra $100 to have them deliver the computer and parts and install everything for me. Otherwise I foresee several days of me swearing at electronics and unhelpful customer service phone lines, and I don't want to deal with that. :-)

[edenfalling]

I do have a local Best Buy that offers in-home troubleshooting services if you buy your computer from them. And from what I remember of Dell's customer service lines, having an actual person willing to come out and fix things is probably worth the extra money!

[edenfalling]

I think many printers these days can double as photocopiers, in the same way that most fax machines can double as photocopiers. The reproduction quality may be low, but at least it's there. At least, this is what people tell me...

[(Anonymous)]

1. Eh, hit Newegg.com and pick a tower -- if you can, get one which doesn't run Vista 'cause Vista will not do D happily.

2. Sony makes a very nice low-to-no glare flat screen. In theory, any flat screen ought to be the same, but the one I've got sitting hooked up to my desktop is a Sony one. Once again, Newegg.com will probably give you the best prices on these.

3. Yes, you can. But you're probably going to be happier just getting an external case for it instead of installing it as a slave drive. All you need to do is plug the wire inside the external case into the hard drive (trust me, it'll be bloody obvious as there should only be one) & close it up. Then you plug it into the wall via its power cable & into your comp via the USB cable. As long as you didn't get a highly weird hard drive, all that's required is the ability to not try to force plugs where they don't fit. (Plus, the warranty on your new comp shall remain intact, which it won't if you put it into the case.)

[hoshi-ryo.livejournal.com]

...weird, where'd my login cookie go...?

'neways, places like Best Buy and Dell might not be worth it, as Microsoft has been seriously pushing Vista -- to the extent that you've got to stick to the 'net if you want a new machine that runs some other version of Windows.

[edenfalling]

Vista will not do D happily.

What's 'D'?

[hoshi-ryo.livejournal.com]

Old mp3s -- from what I understand, it thinks you're a pirate nevermind that you may have ripped them from your own CD collection. ::got to watch somebody deal with a sudden move to Vista, and their old mp3s pretty much all refused to play::