Thank you! And one of the points I was going to make was exactly that. It's a big point of difference between the books and the LWW movie. In the book, these are by-names they are called, not titles bestowed by Aslan. Presumably what Aslan says you are, you are, but what you're called by people reflects what people see, the thing about them that sticks in people's minds - which is not the same as what someone is. (See Through the looking-glass and the discussion of the White Knight's Song. :) ) There was probably a great deal more to Charles the Bald or Rollo the Ganger than their nicknames suggest. (Certainly there was to Rollo - I'm a bit hazy on Charles.)
Also - called by whom? Lucy's nickname, we are told, is from "her own people" - leaving it to be supposed that it's others who call Peter, Susan and Edmund their names. (or alternatively, that others outside Narnia had a different name for Lucy? Or else - who are Lucy's "own people"?)
I think, actually, that Lewis put the names in because he wanted to underline how Edmund turned his ordeal into a strength, and because he really liked the character of Lucy - I think he gave the names to Peter and to Susan without much thought. (No, emphatically not a perfect writer.) But there the names are, so there it is - Gentle, canonically, is how she was perceived by those who gave the name. And she is gentle, "tender-hearted" - she is enormously aware of concerned for the feelings of others, and not to damage their sense of self-worth. When Lucy is shouting at Trumpkin "... don't you yet see who we are?..You are stupid” and Edmund also gets angrier and angrier, Susan is quiet and straightforward: "No help?” said Susan. “But it has worked. And here we are.”
She sees people as as whole people, and is careful of their feelings as well as their physical well-being (again, this shows with Trumpkin - “Oh, Edmund,” said Susan. “Don't keep on at him like that.” (She does let looser with her siblings, who know perfectly well that she values them.) She wants to see the best and think the best (she didn't want to shoot the bear in case there was a chance that he might be a Talking Bear) - I suspect this is part of the Rabadash business.
I've said already that I agree with your point about the value of gentleness. I have wanted, too, to write a story which would show that in action. It's not just softness or diplomacy, it's an enormously vital force. Maybe I was doing Lewis an injustice a minute ago to say he didn't give much thought to the name - he may be (okay, probably was) using it in the slapdash way it's slung around in The Fairy Queene, but he may on the other hand give it the force of Beatrice in the seventh sphere of Paradise, where the "temperate", (gentle?) contemplative life is shown as hugely powerful ("I won't smile at you now," says Beatrice to Dante. "The power would be too much for you, like the sight of Zeus hit Semele.") I'm not meaning contemplative here to rule out action, either; I would love to write a story sorting out those thoughts and showing the importance of the Gentle, but it's still (obviously!) brewing, and probably will need to for a long time yet. :)
And yes, of course re: the remarks passed in Aslan's country by Polly, Eustace and Jill - as you rightly say, they are the ones who know her the least. Further, they don't all agree as to what's the difficulty - Eustace misses her as a person, misses her companionship in the Narnia circle - he wants her to "come and talk". Jill resents being left behind, as being not yet old enough herself for the nylons and the invitations. Polly thinks Susan is wasting time - a typical remark of the aged, whose time is running out, and often think they see opportunities which they think a younger person ought to be taking up. (Wasting time in what? Could be running the local Dramatic Society for all we know; just that Polly thinks it's silly and not grown-up.) I think those differences are important, and note it's only Jill who mentions lipstick.
But also, here's the thing - they might be dead - it doesn't mean they're right! I think it's important to take seriously the repeated call to get closer and closer to reality (Further up and farther in - or have I got it the wrong way round?). They all have a way to go, though maybe some more than others - "I hope Tash ate the Dwarfs too," said Eustace. "Little swine." "No, he didn't," said Lucy. "And don't be horrid." This fits Lewis's theology, too, of course - the thing about still travelling closer to reality/God after death. So -- to my mind, Eustace, Jill and Polly are simply wrong, though (ahem!) Eustace least wrong. Peter makes a plain statement, and clearly is not going to put up with any slinging off at Susan -- and we don't even know exactly what he means by a "friend of Narnia". Myself, I'm taking it to mean that she no longer meets with the group, and that's all.
Well... still not well-sorted thoughts, and heaps more could be said - about the train accident, for one thing - but this has gone on quite long enough as it is. :)
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Date: 2014-10-12 01:27 am (UTC)Also - called by whom? Lucy's nickname, we are told, is from "her own people" - leaving it to be supposed that it's others who call Peter, Susan and Edmund their names. (or alternatively, that others outside Narnia had a different name for Lucy? Or else - who are Lucy's "own people"?)
I think, actually, that Lewis put the names in because he wanted to underline how Edmund turned his ordeal into a strength, and because he really liked the character of Lucy - I think he gave the names to Peter and to Susan without much thought. (No, emphatically not a perfect writer.) But there the names are, so there it is - Gentle, canonically, is how she was perceived by those who gave the name. And she is gentle, "tender-hearted" - she is enormously aware of concerned for the feelings of others, and not to damage their sense of self-worth. When Lucy is shouting at Trumpkin "... don't you yet see who we are?..You are stupid” and Edmund also gets angrier and angrier, Susan is quiet and straightforward:
"No help?” said Susan. “But it has worked. And here we are.”
She sees people as as whole people, and is careful of their feelings as well as their physical well-being (again, this shows with Trumpkin - “Oh, Edmund,” said Susan. “Don't keep on at him like that.” (She does let looser with her siblings, who know perfectly well that she values them.) She wants to see the best and think the best (she didn't want to shoot the bear in case there was a chance that he might be a Talking Bear) - I suspect this is part of the Rabadash business.
I've said already that I agree with your point about the value of gentleness. I have wanted, too, to write a story which would show that in action. It's not just softness or diplomacy, it's an enormously vital force. Maybe I was doing Lewis an injustice a minute ago to say he didn't give much thought to the name - he may be (okay, probably was) using it in the slapdash way it's slung around in The Fairy Queene, but he may on the other hand give it the force of Beatrice in the seventh sphere of Paradise, where the "temperate", (gentle?) contemplative life is shown as hugely powerful ("I won't smile at you now," says Beatrice to Dante. "The power would be too much for you, like the sight of Zeus hit Semele.") I'm not meaning contemplative here to rule out action, either; I would love to write a story sorting out those thoughts and showing the importance of the Gentle, but it's still (obviously!) brewing, and probably will need to for a long time yet. :)
And yes, of course re: the remarks passed in Aslan's country by Polly, Eustace and Jill - as you rightly say, they are the ones who know her the least. Further, they don't all agree as to what's the difficulty - Eustace misses her as a person, misses her companionship in the Narnia circle - he wants her to "come and talk". Jill resents being left behind, as being not yet old enough herself for the nylons and the invitations. Polly thinks Susan is wasting time - a typical remark of the aged, whose time is running out, and often think they see opportunities which they think a younger person ought to be taking up. (Wasting time in what? Could be running the local Dramatic Society for all we know; just that Polly thinks it's silly and not grown-up.) I think those differences are important, and note it's only Jill who mentions lipstick.
But also, here's the thing - they might be dead - it doesn't mean they're right! I think it's important to take seriously the repeated call to get closer and closer to reality (Further up and farther in - or have I got it the wrong way round?). They all have a way to go, though maybe some more than others -
"I hope Tash ate the Dwarfs too," said Eustace. "Little swine."
"No, he didn't," said Lucy. "And don't be horrid."
This fits Lewis's theology, too, of course - the thing about still travelling closer to reality/God after death. So -- to my mind, Eustace, Jill and Polly are simply wrong, though (ahem!) Eustace least wrong. Peter makes a plain statement, and clearly is not going to put up with any slinging off at Susan -- and we don't even know exactly what he means by a "friend of Narnia". Myself, I'm taking it to mean that she no longer meets with the group, and that's all.
Well... still not well-sorted thoughts, and heaps more could be said - about the train accident, for one thing - but this has gone on quite long enough as it is. :)