wherein Liz reviews Trigun without ever actually discussing the plot

[edenfalling]

Yesterday, I took a look at the public library's comics and manga collection (which for some reason is shelved in 741.5 or some-such, under the category of visual arts -- makes very little sense for fiction, but hey, not my call). The last time I looked through it was back in 2002, I think, when I was reading Sandman and trying to convince myself not to blow my savings buying all the trade volumes. (I failed, btw, which was why I ended up writing stories for people that Christmas.)

Anyway, back then they had maybe four shelves of stuff. (By 'shelf' I mean one level of one bookcase, not a full bookcase.) Now they have something like twenty. Granted, those four shelves were stuffed pretty full, and some of the twenty current shelves are... very much not, but still. This is an impressive change!

Um. Where was I going with this...? Oh yeah.

So, I poked around to see what was there, and it's a highly eclectic sort of collection. I really need to look through it a few more times to see what all they have. (I'm sure what I saw yesterday wasn't the full collection, because comics and manga spend a very high proportion of their time checked out, in comparison to other books -- interesting, yeah?) Anyway, I ended up checking out Trigun volume 1 and Trigun Maximum volumes 1-5, because I'd heard it had vague similarities to Ruroni Kenshin, and I have a weakness for adventure stories with whacked-out premises.

And...

How to put this...

Okay, look. Have you ever read a story where the concept was amazing, but the actual book was only somewhere between 'decent' and 'fairly cool' -- a book that could have been knock-you-flat incredible, but just wasn't, for one reason or another? C. J. Cherryh is like that for me -- great ideas, disappointing execution.

Trigun is sort of like that. The mangaka, Yasuhiro Nightow, is just not clear. I cannot follow half his action scenes. Things happen with no development. Loose ends dangle all over the place. It can be nearly impossible to tell who's talking, who people are talking to, or if they're having weird telepathic exchanges/flashbacks. Characters go into chibi deformation at the drop of a hat -- actually, I think they spend more time deformed than drawn seriously. (I admit that chibi deformation is one of my personal pet peeves, but still, consistency of artwork is important in a visual medium!) I still have no clear image of what Hopperd the Gauntlet actually looks like.

And yet, I kept reading. There's enough good stuff there, and it hits enough of my buttons (dear god, I love Vash and Wolfwood) that I want to know what happens next, what happened before, and so on.

Weirdly, though, what reading Trigun did was give me a greater appreciation of Masahi Kishimoto, who writes and draws Naruto. Say what you will about his storyline, you're almost never lost. The characters have a consistent 'look.' The action scenes are, by and large, comprehensible. The flashbacks are cleanly inserted, and follow a consistent point of view. You always know who's talking -- even more important, you usually know if they're speaking out loud or just thinking. (This can be hard to determine in a lot of manga, since the Japanese don't seem to have a default system of streamlined speech tails and puffy thought bubbles the way many American comics do.)

You don't appreciate good storytelling until you see people doing it badly, because good storytelling makes itself invisible. If the structure is obvious, either the author is doing something besides just telling a story, or something is going wrong.

...

I also want to see the Trigun anime now, because at least there I expect I'd be able to follow the bleeping fights!

Comments

[redwolfoz.livejournal.com]

Have you ever read a story where the concept was amazing, but the actual book was only somewhere between 'decent' and 'fairly cool'

All the time. I have a friend who love DragonballZ. His descriptions are amazing. When I finally watched it, I found it couldn't live up to what I'd heard, so I went back to hearing about it from my friend. It's a much better show that way.

consistency of artwork is important in a visual medium

Stay the hell away from Marvel, then. Marvel are about the money. They hire amazing writers and Do. Not. Let. Them. Write. They will chop and change artists and writers mid story arc and it's best we not mention that they recycle the same tired old handful of stories every few years. Idiots!

[edenfalling]

I read something like 10 volumes of Dragonball and DragonballZ in bookstores, a couple years ago. It's goofy as hell and a great way to kill time, but I hear that the pacing of the show is, shall we say, glacial. I read DBZ because it was great junk entertainment, and because Toriyama is another mangaka whose pages are clean and whose stories are clear. (They may be painfully stupid, but they're not incomprehensible garbage. That's worth a lot in my book.)

Stay the hell away from Marvel, then.

Oh, I gave up on American monthly comics years ago. I have nostalgia for some old Marvel and regular DC stuff, but I wouldn't pay money for it anymore. It's all essentially fanfiction anyway, but the writers and artists aren't allowed to try any really original twists, and since the overall stories never end, it's hard to find any real meaning in them. I figure that if I'm going to pay money, I want something new, something that has a clear 'voice' and a defined perspective -- I can read fanfiction for free online. :-)

sorry for comment hopping!

[elfiepike.livejournal.com]

there are some american comics that i think are totally worthwhile--y the last man is way up there for me, with one writer, one main artist, and an interesting premise that could have been really cheesy but i think is done really well.

ahem. i'm a little in love with it. don't mind me. :)

Re: sorry for comment hopping!

[edenfalling]

Um. I phrased that badly; let me clarify. I stay away from 'mainstream' American comics -- superhero stuff, in other words (I continue to boggle at the weirdness of such a niche genre being considered mainstream) -- and away from the flimsy monthly issues. I do, however, buy the occasional trade paperback for something that's clearly the vision of one or two people. Currently that would be Finder by Carla Speed MacNeil and Lucifer by Mike Carey and various artists.

(Why yes, I do like whacked-out science fiction, evil masterminds who make it work, world-building, and good characterization. *grin*)

Beyond that... well, it's expensive to buy picture as well as words, and even more expensive to buy color pictures. So I usually stick to books instead, and even there I'm a big fan of libraries. :-)

[valles-uf.livejournal.com]

I also want to see the Trigun anime now,

Yes, you do. You very much do. Particularly, as unusual as this is, the dubbed version. Most of the performances are at least as good, and English!Vash (whose name escapes me at the moment) is far better, capturing both of the character's extremes perfectly. Probably the only beef I can think of anyone having with it is that it covers both of the manga series, and, since Trigun Maximum is apparently a lot more serious than the original, the TV show suffers a fairly abrupt reversal of mood about halfway through.

For following the action, well, I'd rate Vash and Knives' fight scene in episode 26 as the second best gunfight I've ever seen, period. (The first, if you're wondering, is the climax of a rather Matrix-esque film called Equilibrium.)

Ja, -n

[edenfalling]

Hmmm... I think some of the difference in tone between Trigun and Trigun Maximum is that the overarching plot kicks in more in the second, whereas the first has strong elements of an episodic 'introduce the characters and the world' thing. They're quite clearly parts of the same story.

*plots to find a download site and camp out at a computer lab with headphones*

[elfiepike.livejournal.com]

the trigun anime was one that i always thought was good but a bit uneven; it was one of those shows where the character development was sometimes a little wonky, like it couldn't decide between seriousness and wacky hijinks. though those guns, oh man--it's not a spoiler because the title is trigun! they are awesome. i would say it's worth renting. :)

[edenfalling]

It's on DVD? That could be useful...

[alliancesjr.livejournal.com]

Entire series in a boxset. Fairly expensive, unless you can find it used.

As has been said, watch it dubbed. Trigun is one of two series that has been described to me as having the English dub being better than the original Japanese track, and I agree about both.

(The other, in case you were wondering, is Hellsing.)

[deralte.livejournal.com]

The Trigun anime definately makes a lot more sense than the manga (not that I've gotten around to reading past Trigun Max 1, but yeah...). That being said, it's good you read the manga first since I nearly stopped watching the Trigun anime until I hit the 7th or so episode because the first eps are so goofy they nearly put me off the series (I don't like to be faced with unrelenting comedy from a series that obviously has a huge tragedy behind it.) Vash and Wolfwood definately make the series in both formats.

[edenfalling]

Unrelenting comedy, eh? Hmm. The manga definitely suffers from tonal inconsistency -- there's an art to blending humor and pathos, and Yasuhiro Nightow teeters back and forth between them instead of balancing along the knife edge. But the huge tragedy kind of hooked me, and Vash is so adorably goofy sometimes that I really want to hug him. Then he gets depressed and I want to hug him even more. *sigh* I am, apparently, helpless before characters with massively angsty backstories, who have bizarre yet humorous coping mechanisms.

...

Oh god, no wonder Kakashi kept popping up in "Apartment Manager." *headdesk*

[(Anonymous)]

He, he! I was starting to feel a bit stupid about not understanding the manga! But yeah, it IS very hard to read. I can assure you the anime version is much more comprehensible!

[edenfalling]

Good to know!

[basement-gnome.livejournal.com]

Haha, yeah; let me jump on the Bandwagon and say, YES to the Trigun anime. It is indeed a wonderful series, despite massive moodswings at times, and the english voice actors are absolutely amazing. Also, two big thumbs up for reading Finder; that series is just breathtakingly wacky. It's such an odd world, with countless familiarities, and it gives new meaning to the phrase "Dysfunctional Families".

[edenfalling]

Okay, I really have to hunt down the DVDs now. I'm sure I can rent them from somewhere.

Don't buy the DVDs

[stab594.livejournal.com]

Its too expensive. Join a group like Anime-Supreme and use BitTorrent to download it. BTW, yes Anime-Supreme has it available. Here's the URL:

http://bittorrent.anime-supreme.com/

-594

Don't buy the DVDs extended

[stab594.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the version they have has both the english and Japanese tracks plus the official subtitles and their version of the subtitles.

Re: Don't buy the DVDs

[edenfalling]

I said rent, not buy! I'm too broke to buy anything discretionary at the moment. :-)

Re: Don't buy the DVDs

[stab594.livejournal.com]

Its free from anime-supreme though! why spend money to rent when you can be a pirate?

Re: Don't buy the DVDs

[edenfalling]

I don't like downloading files. Even when I do download, it's only because the manga issues in question haven't been released in America yet. I also delete them once I finish reading; that way it's like borrowing from a library rather than stealing from a bookstore.

(Yes, it's a convoluted justification. I don't care. It works for me.)

Since Trigun has been released on DVD, I would not feel right downloading it. YMMV, but that's where I stand.