I FUCKING HATE HUMANITY (an incredibly rude reviewer)

[edenfalling]

This is a review I just got for Definitions of Romance:

Jeez, this sure is one of the most, well... stories I wish I hadn't read after I had read them. Well actually I'm glad that I read it, but I just think that the story isn't really nice (read: Revolting).

I don't know if you read PoU from Lori, but that is the H/Hr bible. In that story Harry and Hermione are so romantic with eachother, they have a hugo wedding, they had a grand honeymoon. In other words, it's the opposite of this story.

I love H/Hr so of course I don't want to read about them not being romantic, and actually very distant from eachother. I want to read about how much they love each other, how they are all over each other all the time, how everyone know their passion. Nah this really wasn't the story for me.

I'm not saying it was a bad story, what I'm saying is that I just don't like it. Also I thought that the choice of word was just a little plain. but that's just what I think.

- Raymond

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This is my response, after several edits:

I have, indeed, read Lori's works. I like them a lot, despite my distaste for the Super!Harry conceit, and at one point, when I had more free space on my hard drive, I even had "Crossing the Line" downloaded -- it's well-written, emotionally moving, and damn sexy. Lori is justly famous and respected.

However, life is not (for most of us, anyway) a romance novel, and there are many more variants of love than you seem to acknowledge. I wouldn't want that sort of love in my own life -- it sounds, quite frankly, utterly exhausting. Not all people want that sort of devotion 24/7. Harry and Hermione both strike me as fairly private people, who wouldn't be all that demonstrative, and I've never really understood how people can write Harry as the sort of person who makes passionate declarations of love that are paragraphs long. It just doesn't ring true to me, particularly not after his canonical incompetence with girls.

We seem to have a fundamental difference in how we define love. I can attest, from family experience, that marriages such as the one I described DO exist and can be very fulfilling and happy for the people involved. I see Harry and Hermione as the sort of people who would like that kind of marriage; you do not. We're obviously not going to convince each other, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

With regard to some of your other points: since I read and write H/Hr stories (among other shipfic and a lot of genfic), and I don't follow Lori's template, obviously her stories are not an H/Hr 'bible.' In fact, I try very hard to base my work on canon, not on other people's fanfiction. I regard this as a virtue.

As for the rather stark phrasing of "Definitions of Romance," that was a deliberate stylistic choice, made to emphasize the non-traditional type of romance. So while I understand how that might seem odd to someone expecting more typical 'genre' romance, there was, in fact, a reason for it.

Thank you for your honesty, and I'm sorry that my story didn't work for you. While I'd be thrilled if everyone loved it, the world would be a much poorer and more boring place if everyone agreed on every point, and if all people enjoyed exactly the same things.

Sincerely,
Elizabeth Culmer

P.S. If you want to offer constructive criticism and have an author actually listen to you, it's generally not wise to start by calling the story in question 'revolting.' First, that's rude. Second, it's almost guaranteed to make the author both furious and defensive.

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I know, I was rude. In my defense, I did edit out the bit where I corrected his grammar and spelling errors in a very supercilious tone, I gave him some free advice, and I didn't point out that Lori herself liked and recced my story, damnit.

But really!

If you don't like a story because it's based on character interpretations you don't agree with, then all you should do is say something like this:

I think Harry and Hermione would have a more passionate and physically affectionate relationship. I like it when they have big weddings and grand honeymoons, and are very romantic, like in Lori's PoU series. Therefore, I found your story uncomfortable to read. Also, I didn't like your word choices; they seemed too plain to me.

See? That's simple, it gets the point across, and IT'S NOT INCREDIBLY INSULTING. You should not order writers around just because they don't see canon the way you do. You should not imply that there's something WRONG with a story just because it doesn't fit into your personal views. You can complain about it all you like on your own livejournal or website, but a review aimed at the author, superficially disguised as constructive criticism, is not the place for a shipping argument -- especially an argument based on fanon. And if you're going to hold one writer up as an example of what you like, it might be a good idea to be sure of her views first!

...

That unprintable bastard. I was having a good day, and now I'm sitting here trying very hard to make my adrenaline reaction go away before I smash something.

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Please don't say anything to him. He's only an idiot who doesn't know any better, and I just needed to vent to somebody before I exploded from bottling up the tension.

Comments

[snaegl.livejournal.com]

Oy...he gets the SuperTwit award...Frankly, I think you did him a service by bothering to respond at all...

Sooo...*gets out steak knives and starts sharpening* when does TwitHunt 2006 begin?

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

He's a moron. I loved your story. Wish I wrote H/Hr that way myself. Maybe one day I'll write something that lives up to that standard :D

[erised1810.livejournal.com]

I can't beleive someone who doesn't like the story actually takes the time to yammer like this about it. If something doesn't fit with my views I only comment on it if it still does something with me. If I read something and I really don't like it most of the time I just move on. I ocld sa ya lto mroe about not readgin deep enough into the story and thusbeign narrowminded adn stupid and dimwitted and jstu asil yfanon puppet adn ugh h/h adn uberfluffy romance bleagh....
BUT I haven't read the story myself so Ill quit here.
I adm ire you for this review though. adn iliek the refreshign sanity of seeing someone syphon it of lie khtis andn ot in viteveryoen to horde this person and flame them to death.
meanwhie it stl remains that i can't believ someone wants to wants to go onadn on about hwo they don't liek the story.

[darksideofstorm.livejournal.com]

Personally I loved your version of H/Hr, it's one of the very few het fics that doesn't make me twitch. I have it saved on my computer and peruse it with joy when I need calming, downplayed fluff.

Your asshat reviewer is a twit. I think your reply was exemplory and polite and does you credit as a writer. With that said, *sharpens her own knives* this TwitHunt 2006 sounds fabulous, when does it begin? *toothy grin*

[elfiepike.livejournal.com]

i think your response was actually very well-said and polite. but seriously, i can go kick him in the head if you like!

[tjalorak.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Your response was a very polite answer to a very immature review.

[missmurchison.livejournal.com]

This reviewer's view of romance is so cliched and limited that it's clear he has more immaturity issues than just his amazing rudeness.

[sarraceniaceae.livejournal.com]

Jeez. I'm not even that rude when I'm giving (okay, somewhat snarky) constructive criticism to someone who seems constitutionally incapable of learning to write. That's just kind of beyond rude.

[chibirisuchan.livejournal.com]

*BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP*

...that unholy screeching racket you hear is the squirrelbot's Moron Detector(TM). I have to admit it's gotten quite a workout from FF.net. It's like a fire alarm in my head, but unfortunately without the convenient ability to remove the batteries. @_@ I've got my blood pressure up in outraged sympathy just reading it over.

Personally, I think you replied to the jerk much more politely than he deserved...

[alliancesjr.livejournal.com]

I think it's time to release the Daleks.

Your story was absolutely delightful, and incredibly refreshing. I am, in essence, a Ron/Hermione fan, but I will never say no to a good Harry/Hermione; especially when it is as geniusly constructed as yours.

Having a well-written review does not excuse him from being an ass. Common courtesy is still good to have, even at The Pit.

[redwolfoz.livejournal.com]

I thought there was some rule that meant all dumb reviewers left comments littered with drooling, SMS garbage and general drivel. This one musn't have got the memo.

What a tosser.

[iponly.livejournal.com]

I think a well-deserved sense of superiority (*sends more support like the other commenters*) is the best cure for this sort of review, but if that isn't enough, my irritation drove me to start that fanart of Ginny and sir Vladislav that was mentioned on the fanart thread so long ago. Should be done with it around this weekend. Feel better!

[dissimulatory.livejournal.com]

Okay, it seems like this horse was beaten to death before I got here, but just in case the bad taste from this lingers on in the morning, I thought I'd add my two cents worth of support and sympathy.

First of all, that reviewer was clearly out of line. He has a right to his opinion, yes, but not to be overly nasty about expressing it. His reply was both rude and unnecessarily vicious (that "revolting" comment was totally uncalled for), and I think your reply was well thought out and, with the possible exception of the post script (to which I say: right on!), admirably neutral.

"Definitions of Romance" was the first story of yours that I read, and, especially after slogging through some of the stuff over at ff.net, I found it to be delightfully in character and well written. (I have now progressed to reading your fic religiously, and, as you may now be noticing, stalking your livejournal as well... *grins*)

I can't help but wonder how old this reviewer is, as this (fortunately only vaguely) reminds me of my own views on romance when I was in the 12-13 age range. If he is as young as his review makes him sound, hopefully his point of view will be broadened as he grows up (and, maybe he'll learn some manners along the way, too).

Romance is something that is intensely personal and not easily defined, and relationships like the one you describe certainly do exist. I'm going on seven years in one that is (give or take a few details that no one here needs--or, likely, wants--to know about) very similar to what you've described. No passionate, two page long romantic declarations or huge weddings or any of that floopery here, thanks. ...And I rather think it's because of that that we keep outlasting the relationships of school friends who are forever in (or in search of) some grand romance.

Ah... and I just realized I'm preaching not only to the choir, but to the preacher as well. I suppose I'll get down off my soapbox now, and leave you and your journal in peace.

Just one last reminder that there are people out here who appreciate that you take the time to write and share your wonderful fiction. Thank you.

...And Goodnight.

[edenfalling]

Well, it was a review on a FictionAlley noticeboard, and I have a policy of always responding to those, so to leave it alone would have been odd. It would also have, perhaps, implied that I couldn't deal with negative reviews, and I'd like to avoid that.

*grumble* It's not that he didn't like the story -- I can deal with that, because it's impossible to write something that everyone will like. It's not his immature notions of romance. It's not even the word 'revolting' in and of itself -- I wouldn't mind if someone called some of my darker stories revolting, for example, because they're meant to be unsettling.

It's just the incredible rudeness, and the way he tried to disguise that as actual constructive criticism. That's almost worst than an outright attack, you know? Because there's an implication that I'm too stupid to realize that he's attacking me, so long as he pays minimal lip service to the outward forms of intelligent criticism.

(And, yeah, I do mind the word 'revolting' in the context of this story.)

No TwitHunt, please. Sooner or later karma will bite him in the ass, and I am content in that knowledge. (Mostly.)

[edenfalling]

Hey, you write much better sex than I do -- to each her own, you know?

[edenfalling]

I don't like getting angry, because I have a history of getting violent when I'm angry. So I try very hard to avoid getting angry in the first place, and when I am angry, I try to channel it in socially acceptable ways and let it drain as quickly as possible. Because I don't have constructive anger, just destructive anger, and if I hold onto it, it hurts.

[edenfalling]

No twit hunting, please -- as I said to Cat, karma will bite him in the ass sooner or later, without any need for my help.

I used to explode when I got angry, but in the past few years I seem to have started getting icily logical and scathing instead. I try very hard to be polite about it; for one thing, being polite gets people to listen, and for another, it makes the impolite antagonist look like an idiot. :-)

I still fail at politeness more often than I'd like, though. *sigh*

[edenfalling]

Nah, sooner or later he'll do this to somebody's face, and he won't have the internet to protect him from that person's anger.

[alchymie.livejournal.com]

Rather late to this controversy, sorry about that. And it doesn't even seem to be that controversial: we all agree you were shamefully abused, and that the twit-reviewer's next life will be as a sea slug.

I just hope that, if time isn't enough to restore your balance, the support of your admirers will be. ((pats encouragingly))

[edenfalling]

Mmm. I think I may be reading my response as 'rude' because when I'm utterly furious, I tend to retreat into more formal phrasing and word choice. It's a subtle projection of "I'm smarter than you are, you peon," which always feels stiff to me later.

Well, I get formal or I descend into screaming incoherency, but the second option doesn't work well in print. :-)

[edenfalling]

Yeah, but we all have our idiot years, yeah? One hopes he'll grow out of it. (But not before somebody kicks his ass, damnit.)

[edenfalling]

Karma will get him in the end.

...

And, to be honest, I once gave a rather insulting review to someone who had problems with dialogue attribution and punctuation. The issue wasn't what I said -- which was a little lecture (with examples) on how to fix his three grammar problems -- but the tone in which I said it, which was smug and patronizing. So I figure we're all idiots sometimes, and hopefully he's just young and will grow out of it.

[edenfalling]

The irritating part is that this was a review on FictionAlley, which by rights ought to have more intelligent reviewers, since the site does have a minimal editing system of sorts, to weed out to most egregiously awful fics.

Of course, that does lead to a sense of superiority, which can manifest itself in really insulting reviews. *sigh*

To paraphase Jesus, the morons we shall always have with us... more's the pity.

[edenfalling]

Nah, karma will get him, no Daleks necessary.

In HP fandom, I am a fan of good characterization rather than a fan of particular ships. This means I will read most pairings, provided there's some justification within the story. (Except Hermione/Snape, which squicks the hell out of me for reasons I've never been able to articulate, and even there I did read one by accident and admired its construction and style, though I couldn't quite emotionally engage with the romantic aspect.) I don't go looking for R/Hr -- it doesn't really push my buttons -- but there are several well-characterized R/Hr stories that I've liked quite a lot.

[edenfalling]

Yeah, they bug me more when they look superficially rational -- they slide under the first anti-idiot barrier and thus dig a little deeper.

[edenfalling]

my irritation drove me to start that fanart of Ginny and sir Vladislav that was mentioned on the fanart thread so long ago. Should be done with it around this weekend.

Oooh! *anticipates*

[snaegl.livejournal.com]

Awww...*pouts and wraps up steak knives*...you're always spoiling my fun...;-p I like being an instrument of karma!

Hugs,
Cat

[edenfalling]

I was pretty much okay by yesterday evening -- I'm no good at holding onto anger, which is fortunate since I seem to be incapable of channeling constructive anger and only hurt myself if I try to hold onto destructive anger via grudges.

(True story: I once tried to hold a grudge after an argument with some friends. I lasted all of a day and a half, and even then I kept forgetting I was supposed to be angry and having to remind myself just before I went over to apologize and ask to be friends again. The really pathetic thing is that for once, the argument was more their fault than mine. After that, I decided I just wasn't cut out for staying angry. It took me a lot longer to learn how to stop getting angry so often, but I've mostly succeeded. Being angry is exhausting, and I prefer to avoid it.)

[edenfalling]

Thank you!

Yeah, I got the impression that he's probably young, and I hope he learns better as time goes on.

I think what a lot of teenagers don't realize is that marriage is about partnership and friendship as well as romantic love, and romance alone won't keep you together when things get hard or boredom sets in. I sort of see romance as the icing on the cake -- it makes everything taste better, and look really pretty, but you need to have a cake to put the icing on or you'll get sick from sugar overload.

Um. And I think I'll stop before I beat that metaphor to death.

[edenfalling]

Yes, but you see, that's because you can hold onto anger and use it, whereas I always feel terrible if I lash out because the anger drains away and I'm left with nothing but pity for him. And there's no satisfaction in beating up on helpless idiots.

*sigh*

On a completely different topic, have you finished editing "Secrets" chapter 10? When should I expect it?

[snaegl.livejournal.com]

I hope to drop Secrets in the mail tomorrow evening (I just found a post office that's open to 5pm! I'll be able to do much more consistent mailings now!). After that, it's all in the hands of the USPS...

[alliancesjr.livejournal.com]

I've always been of the opinion that pairings should always be secondary in the scheme of writing, for the most part. If characters get together in the course of writing the story, great! If that's what you're trying to do, even better. Most often, though, writers tend to write for pairings, and exclusively for pairings, at the expense of all the other themes in the story.

So when I go digging through The Pit for stories, I look for stories, not pairings. After that, I can let myself appreciate the pairing.


I agree, though. Hermione/Snape squicks me almost as much as Harry/Dumbledore.

[erised1810.livejournal.com]

wow. I enver realized that. i'l jsut say you'redoign agood job letign it sizzle outthis way.
destructive. heh .remidns me of some outbursts that endedi npiels of lskdjfiur u9u2ejpoejfr until the hwoeo program ctually froze from my near-smaghign the nosnense inther or i accidental ysoemhow hit sent and the coment ended midsentence na pile of rubbish.

[madlori.livejournal.com]

Tell him your story rocks and that I said so, if he's so all-fired attached to my worldview.

Grr. Argh.

[edenfalling]

Cool.

[edenfalling]

Thank you for the support.