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edenfallingThis is a review I just got for Definitions of Romance:
Jeez, this sure is one of the most, well... stories I wish I hadn't read after I had read them. Well actually I'm glad that I read it, but I just think that the story isn't really nice (read: Revolting).
I don't know if you read PoU from Lori, but that is the H/Hr bible. In that story Harry and Hermione are so romantic with eachother, they have a hugo wedding, they had a grand honeymoon. In other words, it's the opposite of this story.
I love H/Hr so of course I don't want to read about them not being romantic, and actually very distant from eachother. I want to read about how much they love each other, how they are all over each other all the time, how everyone know their passion. Nah this really wasn't the story for me.
I'm not saying it was a bad story, what I'm saying is that I just don't like it. Also I thought that the choice of word was just a little plain. but that's just what I think.
- Raymond
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This is my response, after several edits:
I have, indeed, read Lori's works. I like them a lot, despite my distaste for the Super!Harry conceit, and at one point, when I had more free space on my hard drive, I even had "Crossing the Line" downloaded -- it's well-written, emotionally moving, and damn sexy. Lori is justly famous and respected.
However, life is not (for most of us, anyway) a romance novel, and there are many more variants of love than you seem to acknowledge. I wouldn't want that sort of love in my own life -- it sounds, quite frankly, utterly exhausting. Not all people want that sort of devotion 24/7. Harry and Hermione both strike me as fairly private people, who wouldn't be all that demonstrative, and I've never really understood how people can write Harry as the sort of person who makes passionate declarations of love that are paragraphs long. It just doesn't ring true to me, particularly not after his canonical incompetence with girls.
We seem to have a fundamental difference in how we define love. I can attest, from family experience, that marriages such as the one I described DO exist and can be very fulfilling and happy for the people involved. I see Harry and Hermione as the sort of people who would like that kind of marriage; you do not. We're obviously not going to convince each other, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
With regard to some of your other points: since I read and write H/Hr stories (among other shipfic and a lot of genfic), and I don't follow Lori's template, obviously her stories are not an H/Hr 'bible.' In fact, I try very hard to base my work on canon, not on other people's fanfiction. I regard this as a virtue.
As for the rather stark phrasing of "Definitions of Romance," that was a deliberate stylistic choice, made to emphasize the non-traditional type of romance. So while I understand how that might seem odd to someone expecting more typical 'genre' romance, there was, in fact, a reason for it.
Thank you for your honesty, and I'm sorry that my story didn't work for you. While I'd be thrilled if everyone loved it, the world would be a much poorer and more boring place if everyone agreed on every point, and if all people enjoyed exactly the same things.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Culmer
P.S. If you want to offer constructive criticism and have an author actually listen to you, it's generally not wise to start by calling the story in question 'revolting.' First, that's rude. Second, it's almost guaranteed to make the author both furious and defensive.
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I know, I was rude. In my defense, I did edit out the bit where I corrected his grammar and spelling errors in a very supercilious tone, I gave him some free advice, and I didn't point out that Lori herself liked and recced my story, damnit.
But really!
If you don't like a story because it's based on character interpretations you don't agree with, then all you should do is say something like this:
I think Harry and Hermione would have a more passionate and physically affectionate relationship. I like it when they have big weddings and grand honeymoons, and are very romantic, like in Lori's PoU series. Therefore, I found your story uncomfortable to read. Also, I didn't like your word choices; they seemed too plain to me.
See? That's simple, it gets the point across, and IT'S NOT INCREDIBLY INSULTING. You should not order writers around just because they don't see canon the way you do. You should not imply that there's something WRONG with a story just because it doesn't fit into your personal views. You can complain about it all you like on your own livejournal or website, but a review aimed at the author, superficially disguised as constructive criticism, is not the place for a shipping argument -- especially an argument based on fanon. And if you're going to hold one writer up as an example of what you like, it might be a good idea to be sure of her views first!
...
That unprintable bastard. I was having a good day, and now I'm sitting here trying very hard to make my adrenaline reaction go away before I smash something.
----------------------------------------
Please don't say anything to him. He's only an idiot who doesn't know any better, and I just needed to vent to somebody before I exploded from bottling up the tension.
Jeez, this sure is one of the most, well... stories I wish I hadn't read after I had read them. Well actually I'm glad that I read it, but I just think that the story isn't really nice (read: Revolting).
I don't know if you read PoU from Lori, but that is the H/Hr bible. In that story Harry and Hermione are so romantic with eachother, they have a hugo wedding, they had a grand honeymoon. In other words, it's the opposite of this story.
I love H/Hr so of course I don't want to read about them not being romantic, and actually very distant from eachother. I want to read about how much they love each other, how they are all over each other all the time, how everyone know their passion. Nah this really wasn't the story for me.
I'm not saying it was a bad story, what I'm saying is that I just don't like it. Also I thought that the choice of word was just a little plain. but that's just what I think.
- Raymond
----------------------------------------
This is my response, after several edits:
I have, indeed, read Lori's works. I like them a lot, despite my distaste for the Super!Harry conceit, and at one point, when I had more free space on my hard drive, I even had "Crossing the Line" downloaded -- it's well-written, emotionally moving, and damn sexy. Lori is justly famous and respected.
However, life is not (for most of us, anyway) a romance novel, and there are many more variants of love than you seem to acknowledge. I wouldn't want that sort of love in my own life -- it sounds, quite frankly, utterly exhausting. Not all people want that sort of devotion 24/7. Harry and Hermione both strike me as fairly private people, who wouldn't be all that demonstrative, and I've never really understood how people can write Harry as the sort of person who makes passionate declarations of love that are paragraphs long. It just doesn't ring true to me, particularly not after his canonical incompetence with girls.
We seem to have a fundamental difference in how we define love. I can attest, from family experience, that marriages such as the one I described DO exist and can be very fulfilling and happy for the people involved. I see Harry and Hermione as the sort of people who would like that kind of marriage; you do not. We're obviously not going to convince each other, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
With regard to some of your other points: since I read and write H/Hr stories (among other shipfic and a lot of genfic), and I don't follow Lori's template, obviously her stories are not an H/Hr 'bible.' In fact, I try very hard to base my work on canon, not on other people's fanfiction. I regard this as a virtue.
As for the rather stark phrasing of "Definitions of Romance," that was a deliberate stylistic choice, made to emphasize the non-traditional type of romance. So while I understand how that might seem odd to someone expecting more typical 'genre' romance, there was, in fact, a reason for it.
Thank you for your honesty, and I'm sorry that my story didn't work for you. While I'd be thrilled if everyone loved it, the world would be a much poorer and more boring place if everyone agreed on every point, and if all people enjoyed exactly the same things.
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Culmer
P.S. If you want to offer constructive criticism and have an author actually listen to you, it's generally not wise to start by calling the story in question 'revolting.' First, that's rude. Second, it's almost guaranteed to make the author both furious and defensive.
----------------------------------------
I know, I was rude. In my defense, I did edit out the bit where I corrected his grammar and spelling errors in a very supercilious tone, I gave him some free advice, and I didn't point out that Lori herself liked and recced my story, damnit.
But really!
If you don't like a story because it's based on character interpretations you don't agree with, then all you should do is say something like this:
I think Harry and Hermione would have a more passionate and physically affectionate relationship. I like it when they have big weddings and grand honeymoons, and are very romantic, like in Lori's PoU series. Therefore, I found your story uncomfortable to read. Also, I didn't like your word choices; they seemed too plain to me.
See? That's simple, it gets the point across, and IT'S NOT INCREDIBLY INSULTING. You should not order writers around just because they don't see canon the way you do. You should not imply that there's something WRONG with a story just because it doesn't fit into your personal views. You can complain about it all you like on your own livejournal or website, but a review aimed at the author, superficially disguised as constructive criticism, is not the place for a shipping argument -- especially an argument based on fanon. And if you're going to hold one writer up as an example of what you like, it might be a good idea to be sure of her views first!
...
That unprintable bastard. I was having a good day, and now I'm sitting here trying very hard to make my adrenaline reaction go away before I smash something.
----------------------------------------
Please don't say anything to him. He's only an idiot who doesn't know any better, and I just needed to vent to somebody before I exploded from bottling up the tension.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 12:32 pm (UTC)First of all, that reviewer was clearly out of line. He has a right to his opinion, yes, but not to be overly nasty about expressing it. His reply was both rude and unnecessarily vicious (that "revolting" comment was totally uncalled for), and I think your reply was well thought out and, with the possible exception of the post script (to which I say: right on!), admirably neutral.
"Definitions of Romance" was the first story of yours that I read, and, especially after slogging through some of the stuff over at ff.net, I found it to be delightfully in character and well written. (I have now progressed to reading your fic religiously, and, as you may now be noticing, stalking your livejournal as well... *grins*)
I can't help but wonder how old this reviewer is, as this (fortunately only vaguely) reminds me of my own views on romance when I was in the 12-13 age range. If he is as young as his review makes him sound, hopefully his point of view will be broadened as he grows up (and, maybe he'll learn some manners along the way, too).
Romance is something that is intensely personal and not easily defined, and relationships like the one you describe certainly do exist. I'm going on seven years in one that is (give or take a few details that no one here needs--or, likely, wants--to know about) very similar to what you've described. No passionate, two page long romantic declarations or huge weddings or any of that floopery here, thanks. ...And I rather think it's because of that that we keep outlasting the relationships of school friends who are forever in (or in search of) some grand romance.
Ah... and I just realized I'm preaching not only to the choir, but to the preacher as well. I suppose I'll get down off my soapbox now, and leave you and your journal in peace.
Just one last reminder that there are people out here who appreciate that you take the time to write and share your wonderful fiction. Thank you.
...And Goodnight.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-04-25 06:43 pm (UTC)Yeah, I got the impression that he's probably young, and I hope he learns better as time goes on.
I think what a lot of teenagers don't realize is that marriage is about partnership and friendship as well as romantic love, and romance alone won't keep you together when things get hard or boredom sets in. I sort of see romance as the icing on the cake -- it makes everything taste better, and look really pretty, but you need to have a cake to put the icing on or you'll get sick from sugar overload.
Um. And I think I'll stop before I beat that metaphor to death.