question re: Japanese words for Chinese writing and speech (for "Lemonade")

[edenfalling]

I have been trying to figure out how to say "Chinese [language]" and/or "Chinese [writing]" in Japanese, and consequently driving myself up a wall.

I think, possibly, the first might be Chuuka-go, and I am really not sure what the second would be.

The idea here is that in ch. 17 of "Lemonade," there is a communication issue with the blue insect demons, and it turns out that they understand Chinese but cannot reproduce it verbally. So they try writing, and while my version of Duo can speak a little bit of bad Chinese (a handful of phrases, some curses, and a few useful sentences like "What is that called?"), he isn't anything approaching fluent, and he certainly doesn't read it. He does, however, read Japanese, but while kanji are based on hanzi, they're not identical (...I am not even going to speculate on grammar differences), and I suspect Duo reads kana a hell of a lot better than he reads kanji anyway, since I think he learned most of his languages (aside from Latin, which he actively studied partly because it was one of Professor G's pet hobbies, and partly because it reminded him of the Maxwell Church) by ear and/or by reading cheap, disposable popular fiction rather than through formal study.

So I want him to ask for Sasuke's help, but since he's talking to Sasuke in Japanese and Sasuke has no reference for any names/words relating to China (since China doesn't exist in his world), I want to render the word in romanized Japanese to give my (presumably English-speaking) readers a sense of how the word seems foreign to Sasuke.

...

This is obviously not a vital issue -- I can work around it fairly easily -- but can anyone help me out?

Comments

[ladyofshallnot.livejournal.com]

'Chinese language' is Chuugokugo. I don't know for sure, but they'd probably just refer to Chinese writing as kanji.

[supplanter.livejournal.com]

Yes, and I'd think so, for the second.

Apparently "chan-go" is a "vulgar" term for "chinese language", but I'm not sure what the degree of vulgarity is or if either Duo or Sasuke would use it in that case.

[edenfalling]

Since I have no intention of deliberately insulting China, I think I will stick with the more formal term, or a translation thereof as deralte suggests below. :-)

[supplanter.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if the (vulg) annotation in the jwpce dictionary is actually supposed to be vulgar, or if it's just, like, slang/casual/most likely to be utilized by certain ppl, e.g. yakuza or high school boys.  Still, it seems like it would be an unnecessary complication with little benefit, since it doesn't seem like anyone reading Lemonade could appreciate the effort. XD

[edenfalling]

True, sometimes 'vulgar' seems to mean 'casual slang' rather than 'say this and someone will slap you.' Dictionaries are weird like that. *grin*

[edenfalling]

I could not work out whether Chuugoku or Chuuka was a more common term. Thank you for identifying the more likely one!

[ladyofshallnot.livejournal.com]

No problem! Glad my dubious skills could be of some help. :)

[deralte.livejournal.com]

What ladyofshallnot said. Also, if Sasuke never heard of China before, he'd mostly likely translate 'chuugokugo' as Middle Country Language, or Chuu Country Language. Asking him for kanji would make perfect sense to him (though in a world without China, I have no idea why they'd call them kanji...).

[edenfalling]

(though in a world without China, I have no idea why they'd call them kanji...)

I am blaming that on the Sage of Six Paths, since he seems to be the source of everything else in Naruto's world and, so far as I know, has a deliberately vague and mysterious background. So why not say he was a dimensional traveler? *grin*

And oh, duh, of course he'd mentally translate it into Middle Country/Kingdom language. *headdesk*

[moonylala.livejournal.com]

They use a bunch of kanji in Naruto any way, so he would be familiar with it. Chinese writing would just be "kanji" but it you want to specify that it should be read the with the Chinese pronunciation I think you would say "Chuugokugo-kata" the kata at the end means "way of reading" so it would literally be the Chinses language way of reading. So, to tell him to read it in the Chinese way, you would say something like “Chuugokugo-kata de kanji o yomu” (I think, my Japanese is not that good) If that helps...

[ladyofshallnot.livejournal.com]

Chinese pronunciations of kanji are onyomi, and Japanese pronunciations are kunyomi. Because what's the use of having an alphabet if every symbol can't be read at least two ways, right?

Of course, this is within the context of Japanese, not Chinese.

[edenfalling]

Japanese writing systems give me a headache just thinking about them. Any one of them makes sense on its own terms, but three or four all jammed together is intimidating at best. :-/

(...Says the woman who thinks English spelling is actually pretty straightforward, and even the quirky bits are useful for showing etymological connections. *wry*)

[ladyofshallnot.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it makes sense! Say, 右 (migi) is right and 左 (hidari) is left, which is true. 手 (te) is hand! So 右手 (migite) and 左手 (hidarite) are right hand and left hand side, respectively.

On the other hand, 大きい means 'big' with the pronunciation of 'ookii' while 大学 uses the same initial kanji with a pronuncation of 'dai' instead of 'oo', because one is onyomi and one is kunyomi. (Daigaku means college).