further exchange with Runic Healer of Critics United

[edenfalling]

I'm sure you're sick of these people and my letters by now, but I want to keep a public record of the mess and all correspondence related to it. I will cut the details, though, never fear!

A message I received at 2:45am, Eastern Daylight Time, on October 19, 2012:

Name: Runic Healer
Profile: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1501327/
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We couldn't delete our own reviews, only the site administrators could do
that. That or you could have deleted it. Deletion of a chapter causes deletion
of the review, and reuploading it will not put it back.

To answer your question about the interactive 'stuff', here's this:

Entries not allowed:
1. Non-stories: lists, bloopers, polls, previews, challenges, author notes, and etc.
2. One or two liners.
3. MST: comments inserted in between the flow of a copied story.
4. Stories with non-historical and non-fictional characters: actors, musicians, and etc.
5. Any form of interactive entry: choose your adventure, second person/you based, Q&As, and etc.
6. Chat/script format and keyboard dialogue based entries.

Though, you might want to change the 'you' into the guy's name if you don't
want any more reviews pointing it out to you.

Thank you for reading.

RunicHealer

Critics United

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To which I responded:

Since I did not remove your compatriots' reviews -- why should I, when they so clearly revealed your group's wrongheadedness and collective bullying tactics? -- the only remaining answer is that the site administrators removed them. I consider that a clear statement that I am in the right and you are in the wrong regarding our respective interpretations of rule 5.

Please stop harrassing writers on this baseless misinterpretation of the rules.

(Also, you did not answer my implicit question; you sidestepped it. I expressed interest in hearing your justification for interpreting non-interactive uses of second person narrative as somehow being interactive. Your copypasting of the rules does nothing to address that point. Instead, you merely showed once again that you and your group profoundly and persistently misinterpret rule 5.)

Sincerely,
Elizabeth Culmer

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...I let my temper get away from me a touch, damn it. The rhetorical question in the first paragraph is a bit too much of a direct personal attack, and I should have let the whole "blatantly avoiding the question" bit lie instead of responding to that provocation. I needed to wait another half hour or edit a sixth time. Gnrgh.

Comments

[sabriel]

To be honest, I think it's an exercise in futility engaging in trolls like this. They're not interested in any rulebreaking, actual or no. They just want to harass someone.

[edenfalling]

You are almost certainly correct that harrassment is their true goal. But there is a possibility that SOME members of their group can be reasoned with, and also I think it is useful to remind them that they ARE bullies, whatever excuses they use to justify their behavior to themselves. And it is definitely worth the time to demonstrate that they can't intimidate everyone in their path into taking down stories that don't actually break the rules.

(But yeah, this is why I said I shouldn't have bothered with the "you sidestepped the question" paragraph, because that's just asking to get drawn into a tangential kerfuffle instead of sticking to the basic points that A) they are wrong about the rules, and B) they are harrassing innocent writers, which is abusive behavior for which I am quite willing to report them. *sigh*)

[lexicology]

Honestly, I think you're still being pretty polite, all things considered.

[edenfalling]

I do try, both because politeness can be a good way to wrong-foot people who are expecting a torrent of outrage -- it's harder to dismiss me as a "stupid kid" if I am calm, rational, and use a lot of big words -- and because it makes me look more credible and trustworthy if I have to write further complaint letters to ff.net. Which sounds awfully cold-blooded, but it WORKS.

The way I can tell my anger got away from me is the third paragraph, because that is me allowing Runic Healer to draw me into a stupid side argument instead of sticking to my main point. Even if the wording of that paragraph is fairly calm, the fact that it exists at all is a sign that I was still too annoyed to hit send. *sigh*

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

I think you were actually very restrained.

[edenfalling]

Mostly I am annoyed that I let myself be drawn into a side argument. Those never help anything, but I was annoyed enough not to think better of the third paragraph until after I'd hit send/post/enter/whatever. :-/

[lady_songsmith]

Hey Liz, I found this gem on the OTHER bully-group Goodie belongs to.

MrGoodyTwoShoes
Story: Just Pretend - 2nd pov/"you" based?
Reply 9/15 #129

From Out of the Blue
No because they use 'you' it's directed at Shikamaru an actual canon character. It's not set up to put the reader or the writer into the story.
Reply 9/15 #130

Now I don't know the Homestuck canon, obvs, so I can't say how close the parallel is (linked story is Naruto) but it's interesting that at least one of these idiots recognizes 2nd person as a legit form.

[edenfalling]

It's similar, but I'd say there's a slight difference in nuance between the use of second person in that story and the typical use of second person in Homestuck fanfiction. The use of second person in "Just Pretend" is very generalized -- while it's clear that the person addressed is Shikamaru, it reads more like a set of instructions for him to follow. It's sort of imperative/conditional tense, if that makes any sense. Homestuck tends to use second person as a straight up POV alternative to first or second person, so instead of being a set of commands or hypotheticals, it's just like regular narrative in past or present tense. There is also often an attempt to shape the narrative voice to the character's own voice, just as in first or third person. Neither usage is what I'd call interactive, though.

Do you have a link to that forum, so I can see what MrGoodyTwoShoes's reaction to that was? If he let it the story in question slide because second person is not necessarily interactive, then it makes his insistence in Critics United forums that interactivity is beside the point and all second person is WRONG!!! blatantly hypocritical.

[lady_songsmith]

There wasn't a reply, but it's here, about half/two-thirds down the current last page (3) http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/97194/48551507/3/In-violation

(frozen) (no subject)

[(Anonymous)]

"5. Any form of interactive entry: choose your adventure, second person/you based, Q&As, and etc."

Right there. It's not baseless, you're just being fucking stupid. Seriously, stop acting like a whining little bitch. No one's going to white knight for you and no one gives a shit that YOU are the only one that's stupid enough not to notice the rule.

(frozen) (no subject)

[edenfalling]

I am unscreening your comment so people can read your statement and reach their own conclusions. You can stand or fall on your own merits, such as they are. I am also freezing this comment thread because of your blatant misogyny. :-)