I am so tired of people who cannot let a dead horse die

[edenfalling]

Yeah, ff.net trolls again. This time it's a person going by the name explodinghead (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/4223091/), who I will give credit for being more thorough than hir compatriots -- either ze went back through the comments in my own previous posts about this stupid, stupid pissing match they are trying to have with me and noted all the fics that I myself identified as being in second person (...except "Seasons of Cloud and Shadow (Like the Deserts Miss the Rain)", for some reason), or ze actually opened every single fic I have posted on ff.net and commented on the ones in second person. Both those options are signs that these people have way too much time on their hands, no sense of proportion, and a continuing inability to recognize that second person =/= interactivity, but whatever.

All the "reviews" are basically form letters. The only difference from one to the next is a slight variation in the first line, which baffles me -- if you have a form letter, why not just paste the form letter? Why try to make it seem "personalized" for each fic? It does not in any way disguise the fact that you are spamming me and have not actually read the stories in question nor paid any attention to the fact that a bunch of them are already "upload[ed] on a different site."

The reviews (all received on 1/3/13) read as follows:

Please note that you-based fics are in violation. I suggest that you delete this, and upload on a different site.

Thank you for your time.

Entries not allowed:
5. Any form of interactive entry: choose your adventure, second person/you based, Q&As, and etc.

explodinghead
Member of Eliminator

That particular one is for Ring the Changes, which is a Homestuck fic about Rose and Roxy bonding over their shared love of wizard slash, and Roxy asking Rose to beta-read her fanfic of Rose's as-yet-unfinished-in-the-beta-timeline epic series The Complacency of the Learned.

The first line variations are as follows:

Ring the Changes (2012): Please note that you-based fics are in violation.
Prayers to Broken Stone (2009): Please note that this you-based fic is in violation.
Parseltongue (2003): Please note that you-based fics are in violation.
Along the Way (2007): Please note that your you-based fics are in violation.
Knives (2005): Please note that all you-based fics are in violation.
Wherein Two Moirails Make the Best of a Stolen Afternoon (2012): Please note that you-based fics are in violation for interactive behavior.

Stories are listed in order of "reviews" received. Note that the last one FINALLY states outright their objection to me, which is their false conflation of second person with interactivity. As I have said before (and apparently will be saying until I am dead, for fuck's sake), second person is not inherently interactive. It can easily be used in the service of interactivity, but it is not, in and of itself, any more interactive than first or third person -- which are, of course, interactive in the sense that they require a person to read them and imagine the story to life in her or his own mind. In that sense, ALL fiction is interactive.

In the sense which I believe ff.net means, however -- wherein a writer solicits reader feedback to direct the story -- none of my work on ff.net is interactive in the slightest. Which you can easily tell by the way that all the stories above are complete and, in fact, explicitly say that they are complete in the metadata ff.net itself attaches to each file. But apparently logical thought is too hard when there is a badly phrased rule that can be used to bludgeon writers and make trolls feel self-righteous.

*sigh*

I am still feeling tired and fed-up with the general futility of the universe, but I dunno, maybe I should ask ff.net for a rule clarification again. Hell, maybe I should update "The Guardian in Spite of Herself" and ask the readers of that fic to also petition ff.net for a rule clarification...

No, that's a bad idea. That would inevitably derail into flame wars.

I will maintain my moral high ground, such as it is, and let the trolls continue to illustrate their own pettiness and inability to understand the definition of interactivity without my help.

-----

ETA, 1/31/13: Aha! I have discovered the reason for the slight wording variations in the form letter. Apparently ff.net has a primitive anti-spam measure in place that flags copypasted private messages (and presumably also copypasted reviews) sent within five minutes of each other. I assume explodinghead was going down a pre-chosen list of my stories and reviewing them as fast as possible, which would logically require a non-form letter to avoid tripping the anti-spam alert.

Which is funny since the "reviews" in question are actually spam. :-/

Comments

[redwolf]

Is it full moon? Have their meds all run out at once? Or have the pathetic losers run through their hit list of victims to see who's still standing so they can throw another mouth-breather at them to continue their sad little wankfest?

[edenfalling]

I am inclined to think they keep a list of "people we went after who haven't been deleted/deleted themselves" and somebody goes and hits those people again every now and then. Which is baffling to me, because just judging by the number of new fics submitted to ff.net every day, there must be fifty to a hundred new violations they could go after every day of the year and thus never run out of targets... yet here they are, still accusing me of breaking a rule I didn't actually break. *sigh*

[redwolf]

It's frustrating that the Pit of Voles sanctions this behaviour by their silence, but they've always been that way.

I've seen this pathetic, abusive behaviour wherever there's an opportunity for trolls to prosper. If a community has good moderation, the scum will be eventually removed; if they don't, then the community suffers.

Years ago the Pit of Voles might have done something, but they've eventually become the only fanfic archive left standing, are so large and have no competition that they no longer care if they have a troll problem or not, as far as they're concerned this is so insignificant as to not be worth their while. They may lose a few members (well, the accounts will be abandoned) but they have plenty more joining every day. The only thing that would convince them do anything about the trolling would be a significant drop in advertising revenue that could be directly tied back to the trolls.

Essentially, this is the perfect environment for trolling to thrive.

As far as this continuing on the Pit of Voles, I think you're stuck with it for a while. The trolls will only lose interest when they find a different fandom to attack. PoV won't do anything to help either you or the trolls.

That sucks, but it doesn't mean these PSA posts aren't helpful. Trolls are obnoxious and self-righteous, which is painfully obvious from the childish attacks you've documented, but it also means they eventually alienate their fellow trolls, throw massive hissy fits and their little troll groups fracture. Some of these will drift away from PoV into fandom specific forums that aren't so lenient and their history of being morons will come back to bite them.

PoV won't do anything, but documenting historic troll behaviour will. It may be months or years down the line, but the internets don't forget.

[branchandroot]

/Seriously/ too much time on their hands. Man, if this is their prime source of validation (which apparently it is) what they need is some freaking therapy.

[edenfalling]

Well, explodinghead does also write fic of hir own, but yeah, the prominence ze gives to this troll group on hir profile is, I think, quite telling. Personally I'd rather write stories any day of the week.

[askerian]

What the fuck. What kind of gloating spiteful satisfaction do they take from this kind of harrassment? what the *fuck.*

*e-hugs?* Blurgh.

[edenfalling]

I honestly have no idea. People like this completely baffle me. Then again, ff.net's owners/moderators baffle me too, since they keep resisting any effort to clarify their terribly written rule one way or the other -- I mean, if a rule is causing false violation reports because people misunderstand it, wouldn't you want to clarify it and thus reduce the number of abuse emails you have to wade through? But apparently that would make too much sense.

*hugs you back*

[lady_songsmith]

Occasionally I throw something at ff.net staff regarding clarification of this rule. So far they don't appear to give two shits, but given that all "communication" with them is effectively shouting into a void... eh. (Why the hell do they not have a decent contact/support form in this day and age??) There have been discussions about it on the blog (see the bottom set here, for example: http://blog.fictionpress.com/2012/10/18/resolved-403-errors/comment-page-1/#comments) and an interesting weigh-in from 'staff(?)', see here, about halfway down, Blue-Inked Frost is the commentor's name: http://blog.fictionpress.com/2012/12/21/stats-update/comment-page-1/#comments linking to this: http://dewdroplotus.tumblr.com/post/39328172435/me-okay-i-just-wanted-a-clarify-on-the-terms

[edenfalling]

Yeah, ff.net is run as a giant black box, which has become less and less defensible over the years as the net has become more transparent. I just wish I knew why they are so apparently dead-set against clarifying a rule that is obviously in need of clarification! It is like they have their toes stuck in a fire ant colony with all the resulting problems, but resist all chances to, you know, move their feet. *headdesk*

[lady_songsmith]

On the other hand, your reviewer there thinks "one OC is too many," so what do they know about writing?

[edenfalling]

Oh dear, really? I just glanced at hir profile long enough to note the ironic public declaration of belief in Jesus (which, have you not heard of "turn the other cheek"?) and shake my head.

[lady_songsmith]

"Things that annoy me:
Authors with too many OCs. (1 is too many)
Stories that are pretentious.
Stories with descriptions of hair color."
(and many more)
And I'm just sitting here going, "uhhhh, yeah, dude, you carry right on with that...." Anyone who can't tell the difference between 'original character' and 'mary sue' is not someone to take advice from.

[edenfalling]

Hmm. As a point of curiosity, which items on that list do I fail...? Let's find out!

Authors who think they have a fan-base: FAIL. I think there are people who often like my writing. I know this because they have reviewed my stories and said so. I am sorry for, you know, paying attention to reality.

Authors with too many OCs: FAIL. Not only do I use OCs all over the place for minor things like, I dunno, shop clerks and other necessary background roles; not only do I use OCs to fill in world-building gaps when writing stories set in different time periods or among groups we don't see in canon but which must logically exist; not only do I use OCs to act as the villains in plots where the canonical characters need an opponent and no canon character makes sense; but I have committed the gravest sin of all and written a whole massive AU series centered on an OC! Who is also female! Horrors!

Authors who don't respect constructive criticism: Oh, tricky, tricky! I would say I pass, but I have a strong suspicion explodinghead would disagree. We are most likely running into a problem of clashing definitions.

Authors who don't like grammarAuthors who are defensive: Another tricky question of clashing definitions. Oh, explodinghead, you are a sly one!

Stories that have nothing to do with the fandom: Heh. I always write stories that have something to do with canon, but that is not at all the same as having to do with fandom. I mean, judging by Narnia fandom, Calormen might as well not exist, but judging by canon it is a huge country with lots of people and a culture that lasted thousands of years.

Stories that are pretentious: FAIL. I freely admit to this one.

Stories with descriptions of hair color: FAIL. Not in an especially noticeable way, but I have mentioned that people have brown (or black, or blonde, or pink, or even blue-green) hair at various points. I do that for the same reason that I occasionally mention things they are holding or clothes they are wearing. It is useful for sketching a scene and establishing a rough image of a character in readers' minds.

Reviews that have nothing to do with the story: Now, I pass this one with flying colors, but I am afraid I have to say that explodinghead fails it on the evidence of hir own "reviews" to my fics. :-(

Reviews that don't give a way to improve, but say "this could be improved": I have never done this, and to be fair, that annoys me too.

Reviews that insult the writer. (Ex: You're fat, you're ugly): Ditto the previous response.

Reviews that say the story is bad simply based on pairings, genre, etc.: Ditto the previous response.

Anything that/who breaks the rules: And here we again run into that pesky problem of clashing definitions, where I can assert with a perfectly clear conscience that I have not broken any of ff.net's rules, despite what explodinghead obviously thinks.

[lady_songsmith]

Te absolvo.

[edenfalling]

Thank you. *beatific smile*

(Argh, LJ ate my response to the item about not liking grammar. Stupid LJ.)

[(Anonymous)]

This explodinghead person is obviously pretentious and should be ignored with maximum velocity.

[edenfalling]

That is pretty much what I am doing, at least on ff.net. This post is just for my own records and so I can vent a little -- venting being preferable to exploding. *wry*

[bluejayfic.livejournal.com]

Just left a review on Knives. Thank you, trolls, for bringing it to my attention. :P

Also, if "Prayers to Broken Stone" is interactive, so is canon. Lewis addresses the reader directly a lot.

[edenfalling]

I am very proud of "Knives" -- it's one of the stories in which the written version comes about as close as humanly possible to the perfect Platonic ideal of the story I was chasing. It's also a good example of why the "try rewriting in first or third person" faux-advice is not as helpful as these people seem to assume. I tried writing "Knives" in third person, both past and present tense. I tried writing it in first person, even though I dislike first person and generally suck at it. None of those attempts worked worth a damn. The story was dead on the page until I tried second person, at which point it came to nightmarish life. Some stories just want to be told in a particular way and any attempts to avoid that particular voice will kill the narrative in its tracks.

(Homestuck is a little different, because the use of second person there is a way to imitate canon rather than a peculiar stylistic choice, but again, sometimes that's just the voice certain stories want to be told in.)

Alas, the interactivity (or use of second person) of a canon source is irrelevant. FF.net is a privately owned site and so can make any content rules the owners wish. And they don't want interactive fics. I simply maintain that second person is not inherently interactive, and I have not used it in an interactive fashion, at least not in any stories I have posted on ff.net. (There is a reason I have never attempted to crosspost "Trollstuck" over there, and it's not just because chatlogs are forbidden. *grin*)