December Talking Meme, Day 10: middle-aged female protagonists

[edenfalling]

December 10: middle-aged female protagonists (for transposable_element) [Tumblr crosspost]

We need about ten thousand more of them, yesterday.

I mean, seriously, if middle-aged men can be the protagonists of millions of stories over the years, there is no reason middle-aged women can't also. Adventure stories, mystery stories, college professors having midlife crises and hitting on their student stories, you name it. If it works for a man (except for, you know, prostate cancer etc.), it will work for a woman, goddammit.

I think these stories don't get written because too many people are used to thinking of women as the objects in someone else's story, and since middle-aged women aren't either the beautiful young (innocent?) sex prize, or the grandmother figure (either kindly or wicked), they might as well not exist from a fictional perspective. (Except maybe in contemporary realistic fiction? Which is a genre I don't read -- if it doesn't have an edge of the unfamiliar, either fantastical or historical, I'm not usually interested -- and thus know nothing about. And you get women in their thirties in genre romances -- which I occasionally read even without 'paranormal' elements, because they are undemanding brain candy with guaranteed happy endings -- but not so much in their forties or fifties, at least not as the romantic heroines.) Anyway, there has been an increase in female protagonists in general lately, I think, but they seem to be mostly teens and young women. Which is great! I remember how much of a welcome surprise Alana of Trebond was when I discovered her, and I am happy beyond words that she has lots of company now.

But what I really want is Die Hard with the Bruce Willis and Bonnie Bedelia roles reversed, and maybe a female replacement for the villain and/or the cop as well. I don't think that's so much to ask.

*pause*

I should get to work on that myself, shouldn't I? *grin*

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December Talking Meme: All Days

Comments

[monkey5s]

I'm 58 years old, myself, and the only middle-aged female protagonist I can summon off the top of my head is from Wheel of the infinite, by Martha Wells- and the synopses I've read don't really say she's middle-aged. So. Yes, we sure do need that niche opened up more!

[edenfalling]

*ponders* I can come up with... Tenar in Tehanu, by Ursula Le Guin (though not in any of the other Earthsea books). Ael t'Rllaillieu in Diane Duane's Rihannsu Star Trek sequence. Catelyn Stark from ASoIaF. Lisey in Stephen King's Lisey's Story. Cordelia Naismith from the first two volumes of the Vorkosigan saga.

And I've just run completely out of examples. I can think of several other middle-aged female characters, but none who are the protagonists (or co-protagonists with POV sections) of their own stories. And that's very telling. :-(

[lady_songsmith]

I'd add Amelia Peabody from the Elizabeth Peters series, and Honor Harrington in David Weber's series.

And yay for someone else who knows the Rihannsu books! until now the only others I knew of were all in my roleplaying group. :)

[edenfalling]

*googles Amelia Peabody* Ah, those are mysteries. That explains why I've never read them. (The mystery genre and I have never quite clicked, alas.) I should probably look into Honor Harrington sometime, though.

[lady_songsmith]

Yeah, they're mystery/adventure, very Indiana Jones except with "catch the criminal" rather than "find the artifact mcguffin".

Harrington is an edge case maybe? She's 40-odd in a society of 200-year life spans, so you've got this experienced/established-but-physically-youthful thing going on. The books are good reading if you don't mind the occasional pause for the author to show his work as regards things blowing up.

[edenfalling]

I am more than okay with things blowing up in a somewhat scientifically plausible fashion. :-)

[via_ostiense]

Seconded!

[edenfalling]

*considers potential story ideas*

[transposable_element]

Thank you! A subject dear to my heart. :-D

The first example that comes to my mind is DCI Tennyson in Prime Suspect. Or what about the protagonist of Wrede's Caught in Crystal? I can't remember how old she is, pushing 40, maybe? In addition to Tehanu, Le Guin has some short stories with middle-aged women as protagonists.

But I think you're right that there seems to be a big gulf between young-sex-object and wise-old-woman. I think there may be more middle-aged women in contemporary realistic fiction, which I also don't read very much, but you'd think there would be an audience for powerful middle-aged women in historical fiction.

The issue of sexiness is complicated. On the one hand, middle-aged women can be interested in sex, and enjoy sex, and attract sexual attention, and so forth. But in movies and TV, especially, middle-aged women are sexy only insofar as they make themselves look or seem or feel young. I suspect a lot of women don't want to continue trying indefinitely to fulfill some arbitrary and restrictive ideal of youthful sexiness, and therefore that expectation becomes a burden.

[edenfalling]

There are probably several middle-aged female detectives out there -- I mean, even if they're a vanishingly small percentage of mystery story protagonists, the mystery genre is so large and popular there are bound to be some middle-aged women solving murders or what-have-you. Alas, the mystery genre and I have never quite clicked. :-/

It's been forever and a day since I read Caught in Crystal, but I think the protagonist has children who are at least in their teens, so yeah, she must be at least in her mid to late thirties, and quite possibly her forties.

I think a bunch of the problem with middle-aged female sexuality could be solved by making women the subjects of a love story rather than the objects -- then you can run the camera lovingly up and down their male love interests instead, and since society apparently has no trouble finding middle-aged men sexy, hey presto, there we go! *sigh*

[heliopausa]

A great topic! I have a vague feeling that there are middle-aged nuns/mothers superior who are protagonists, mostly as detectives, though I can't name them right now. But if I'm right, then... interesting that women who are outside the general perception of female sexuality can be protagonists.

It's the old male gaze problem: women being assessed pretty well exclusively in terms of sexual attractiveness/availability, but women who are ruled out of that category (the wise-old-woman, nuns) becoming visible as people.

[lady_songsmith]

'Detective' sets off a thought... how old is Harriet Vane? I bounced off Sayers but my impression from fandom was that she's thirties-forties?

[heliopausa]

Oh, yes, surely in her thirties. But I'm taking it that that's younger than the age group that's in question. I was thinking forties and fifties.

[lady_songsmith]

Defining "middle aged" could be an interesting discussion all in itself. (I once heard another woman define it as "ten years older than you are through ten years younger than your parents" which... actually makes sense to me...)

[edenfalling]

I think also the definition has shifted over the past century, as average life expectations have risen and the time people spend in school has increased. Adult life starts a bit later, and people don't feel old as soon, so one's thirties don't count as middle age anymore, and turning fifty doesn't make you officially old anymore. (I dunno where the line is, exactly. Maybe sixty? Maybe retirement? It's all very fuzzy.)

[heliopausa]

Yes, the definition of middle-age has shifted, but the gap in female representation remains - especially in SFF. (As noted, detectives get a wider span of representation.) My perception is that the gap is from that time when child-bearing is marginally less likely up until white-haired wise-old-woman.

[edenfalling]

This discussion is really making me wish I had any interest in mystery stories as a general thing. Unfortunately, that genre does nothing for me. :-(

[heliopausa]

Chalion! Fantasy, not detective! As this spoilerish review of the second volume in the series says: Paladin of Souls is one of the very few books which has a middle aged woman run away and find herself. Ista is a retired queen. She’s been mad for years. She’s a minor character in The Curse of Chalion, but this is her book.
And she's definitely middle-aged. :)

[edenfalling]

Oh yes, of course Ista! *headdesk* I can't believe I forgot her.

[transposable_element]

Nuns made me think of In This House of Brede.

[issenllo]

Mrs Pollifax? And the Jacqueline Kirby books by Elizabeth Peters. One's a CIA agent and one's a librarian (later author). May not be your preferred genre, though.

[edenfalling]

Yeah, unfortunately mysteries are not my genre. It's a pity -- from what my mom and sister tell me, I'm missing out on some really interesting characters -- but mystery plot structures really do not click for me.

I am glad to know that there ARE middle-aged female protagonists kicking around in at least one genre, though. It's a start!

Grumpy Old Snake

[(Anonymous)]

You certainly should! :D There definitely need to be more stories focusing on them in the world.

Otherwise, I'll add in Ekaterin, also of the Vorkosigan Saga, to the tally. She was the POV character for large sections of Komarr and played a large part in its resolution. And I got the feeling she was at least *approaching* middle age, I mean, she'd been married for a while and had a school-aged kid. :D

I'm also... Really, really tempted to add in the witches from the Discworld series. And they're *way* past middle aged, except maybe Magrat I guess. But despite their titles (Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg), they're also not exactly a typical grandmother role. My brain just lumps them in with 'older protagonist' and so they're coming to mind.

Actually, speaking of the Discworld, one of the major things I like about Terry Pratchett's writing is the fact that he seems to respect a *much* wider age range than many authors. He has the typical young protagonists, yes. But he also has distinctly senior protagonists (Granny, Nanny, the woman from Reaper Man whose name escapes me), and middle-aged protagonists (Sam Vimes, Ridcully and the wizards unless they're seniors), and very young protagonists (Tiffany Aching, aged 9).

And all of them are independent, active agents of change in their stories. They all have flaws, they're all *human*, but the narrative respects them.

Re: Grumpy Old Snake

[edenfalling]

I wouldn't personally count Ekaterin during Komarr or A Civil Campaign -- her son is, IIRC, not yet ten years old and she married young, so she's probably thirty-five at most. Which is an age I've seen for heroines in LOTS of genre romance books -- and is in fact pretty much my own current age -- so I'd consider her solidly adult but not yet middle-aged. YMMV, of course! Middle age is a notoriously fuzzy category.

Yeah, Granny and Nanny don't fit the stereotypical 'grandmother' role -- they are protagonists, not supporting characters -- but they're also clearly past middle age, so... I don't think there even is a widely recognized category for old-age female protagonists. :-/

Yes, Pratchett is very good at making people of all ages and backgrounds and interests come across as people rather than symbols or flat cardboard cutouts.

[hungrytiger11.livejournal.com]

I think an added dimension of the women-are-parts-of-someone-else's story is the whole motherhood issue. Still part of someone else's story, but one that has to be backgrounded because a hero has to do his/her journey on their own. I think too, culturally women have had to be homebound due to motherhood (not that there is anything inherently wrong with that), it does put a limit on the stories people want/can tell about women. Luckily women can now be in any situation but I think the history of that not being the case also influences the stories told.

[edenfalling]

Yeah, parents in general get backgrounded, though occasionally you get the "father who left his wife/lover, meets his child as a young adult, and travels alongside them for a while" trope. It's rare to start with, and much, much rarer for a mother to be the one who left her child behind -- which definitely ties into that homemaker/caretaker role.

I think also there is a bias against stories that stay in one location, in favor of stories that involve a lot of travel, so even though you CAN tell a really exciting story that stays within five miles of a single home, people often don't. And then even when they do, they've been conditioned to use a man as the main character even though the "must stay close to children" obstacle preventing a mother's participation has been removed. *sigh*

[justicevoles.livejournal.com]

Kay Scarpetta from Patricia Cornwell's novels is the only one leaping to mind.

Although she apparently ages in comicbook character time compared to some of her surrounding cast...

[edenfalling]

Alas, mysteries are not a genre that clicks for me. :-/ Which is a pity, as people have provided several other examples of middle-aged female detectives!

Although she apparently ages in comicbook character time compared to some of her surrounding cast

That must produce some very strange effects...

[justicevoles.livejournal.com]

Well, it's really only noticeable with her niece/surrogate daughter Lucy who's a ten year-old wunderkind hacker when we meet her in the first book, where Kay is newly 40.

As of the last book, Lucy has had time to finish college, join and wash out of the FBI, etc., etc., and Kay is still 46...

[edenfalling]

*blinks* So Kay has lived through six years, while Lucy lived through nearly twenty? Wow. That is some hardcore time-warping.