wherein Liz blathers on a bit about elemental symbolism

[edenfalling]

'Elemental magic' systems bother me. I mean, earth, air, fire, water... it's a thoroughly disproved pseudo-scientific theory from the ancient Mediterranean world. It's not even constant over the whole earth, because I think the ancient Chinese system goes earth, water, fire, metal, wood, or some such -- which is not just adding new items, but completely disregarding air, one of the supposed 'constants' of the universe (at least according to people who take elemental symbolism seriously).

But.

This division keeps turning up in stories I read -- and in stories I write, considering that I write fanfiction for Angel Sanctuary. So I am trying to come to terms with it. Here are two theories toward that goal.

Theory 1:
earth/water/air/fire = solid/liquid/gas/plasma

Theory 2:
earth/water/air/fire = stasis/physical change/chemical change/nuclear change


If you want to get really fancy, maybe both interpretations can be true at the same time!

Thoughts, anyone?

Comments

[aramina.livejournal.com]

*cough* random lurker just passing by, but the ancient chinese was air, water, fire, wood, metal... at least that's what I remember, and I could be off too

[uminohikari.livejournal.com]

There is earth, not air. Earth is created by fire, and creates metal.

[uminohikari.livejournal.com]

Also, the Japanese system has earth, water, air, fire, void/heaven-- void/space/aether is the fifth element in most other systems, in addition to air, water, fire, earth (ie, buddist, greek, hindu)

[edenfalling]

In all honesty, I find the notion of void/spirit/ether/heaven an even sillier 'element' than the other four. But nobody ever said religion was going to make sense. :-)

[erised1810.livejournal.com]

thats'why I hardl ythink abotu symbolism. ocne I thin of elements i remember some peope link birthssigns to the mas well. and then igetto birth stones, then to name gems, than to this-stands-for-that-which-also-stands-for..kidn of explanations. then i remember whole lists of what one particular thing means in several different lres...whew!

[rurounitriv.livejournal.com]

Earth - solid, stable, the base upon which all things are built, the body
Water - liquid, flowing, that which adapts to conditions, the emotions
Air - gas, blowing, the insubstantial, the intellect
Fire - plasma, burning, the force which transforms all, the passions/will

Elemental magic uses the four elements as allegory or symbolism rather than its literal manifestation. A rock (earth) is stable - it can be broken, worn down to sand, etc but it's still earth. Air carries sound, therefore it's the element related to communications. Water smooths the jagged edges of stone, it flows over or around or under to find its way to its destination. Fire transforms wood to ash, cold to warm, ore to steel. And so on and so forth - you can break things down into elemental associations to a fairly ridiculous degree if you really try, and a single substance may have aspects that relate it to more than one element (like acid is water, because it's liquid, but it's much more fire because it burns.)

Elemental systems also usually have a fifth element, spirit/akasha/aether (the name varies according to who you're talking to) which is formed when all four elements come together into a single entity. This is why the pentacle is usually used as a symbol for Wicca - well that and Wiccans tend to be ornery sorts (in a usually non-violent way) and the idea of turning a symbol of Eeeeevil into something positive appeals to our sense of humor. The symbolism is usually explained this way: each point signifies an element, starting with spirit (the upward point) then going earth -> air -> water -> fire and the circle which represents the cycle of life and the unity of all things.

The Chinese system replaces spirit with wood, and air with metal, but the associations are generally pretty similar, as I understand it - although since I know this mostly through study of feng shui my interpretation may be off.

[edenfalling]

The thing is, elemental symbolism has never worked for me as a way of symbolically organizing the world, nor does it have any spiritual or emotional resonance for me. It also doesn't make sense in a scientific, rational context, so while I will use the language for the sake of effective communication, it tends to make me feel vaguely silly and false-tongued.

I am much more comfortable with binary symbolic systems such as light/dark or good/evil (granted, that's as much because I like subverting them as because I just think that way), with more overt religious imagery (that one I have yet to figure out), and with whatever particular visual or tactile set of symbols arise organically out of any given story I'm writing.

I am aware of the standard interpretations of the four (or five) elements, and how you can classify the world according to their characteristics... but what I'm saying is that that particular method does nothing for me, so more detail about that method won't help. Because elemental symbolism doesn't fit into my perception of the world, I'm trying to bash it around the edges until I can make it feel less disconnected and arbitrary, and more as if it links to some actual, verifiable concepts.

Hence the focus on science. *grin*

[rurounitriv.livejournal.com]

Ah, now see, I'm much less fond of the binary symbolism. It's a little too confining for my mind, I've found that it's too easy for people to think for example that dark=evil simply because they're more comfortable with light - not that I'm saying you do that, just that it makes me twitchy when I start looking at binary systems. I have Issues with certain people in my life who look at things that way. *rolls eyes*

The scientific focus is used by some elemental mages, I know, I'm just not one of them. :)

[curiously-sane.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've seen theory two before. It looks fascinating.

Theory one happens to be my theory of preference as I happen to share your annoyance with the elemental theory. Although, my reason is more that it happens to be too common. People just repeat it over and over again. Sometimes, I end up wanting to scream, "do something different!"

I suppose another way to look at is it is tying it to seasonal change which might be just as common. Well, there's always day and night but that's binary in nature with overlap in eclipses. I'm not sure if that helps but oh well.

[explodingfrogs.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of the of the 'four elements' (when used in magic systems, and when canon itself doesn't say otherwise) as being not so much building blocks of the world as they are four different sub-disciplines of magic that different people have different affinities for. Wind-magic users, for example, aren't in tune with some primal force that shapes all reality as we know it; they simply have a talent for manipulating air currents and/or electricity.

Of course, then there are fictional worlds that clearly have a completely different set of natural laws than ours. In the world of the Golden Sun games, for example, the earth is flat, the oceans are seemingly infinite seeing as they constantly spill over the world's edge and yet never get any shallower, and the moon is actually a giant city raised into the sky by the Anemos tribe. I have no problems believing that the old system of the four elements could be completely accurate in such a setting.